No Familiars?

[Lizard]

A better example is something like a low-level wizard using his familiar to double something like Light of Lunia's pyoo-pyoo output. Nothing like having your own laser pigeon.

Ooooh there's an idea...we're in an undead-rich campaign....

 

[Kichwas]

Yes, the reason was that they were utter and total crap. If you bring them back modeled after 3e the only thing you will 'break' is your own poor wizard.

Frankly don't care if they were crap - they were an iconic aspect of Wizards and Sorcerers. If you played an arcane caster, you had a funky animal on your shoulder. Its just the way it was.

Kind of like, if you played a ranger, you had a pet, and if you played a paladin, you had a magic horse.

All three are gone, and it's just not right...

I don't care if they bring them back as useless pieces of your costume, as long as I can have a little black cat that makes smart-mouthed remarks about how stupid I am... I'm happy.

 

[Nifft]

Maybe in 4e, but not in 3e. It's a class feature.

Now I'm confused. Are we talking about how to model a 3e (and earlier) thingy in 4e, or are we trying to justify beefing up the Wizard, or are we just generally complaining about how 4e isn't 3e?

I'm happy to help model the familiar in 4e, but it's not going to give you all the benefits you got in 3e.

Cheers, -- N

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Now I'm confused. Are we talking about how to model a 3e (and earlier) thingy in 4e, or are we trying to justify beefing up the Wizard, or are we just generally complaining about how 4e isn't 3e?

I'm happy to help model the familiar in 4e, but it's not going to give you all the benefits you got in 3e.

Cheers, -- N

I believe the comment was how the familiar in 3e was useful. Someone commented on it NOT being useful, the counter argument was "it's useful to know what the rats know, because they're everywhere," and the followup to THAT was "The DM would only tell you what he was already going to tell you."

Thus the comment of "Well why bother using ANY skills at all if we're just on the railroad? Why get Gather Information if the DM will just tell you anyways? That's being a bad DM, and it doesn't prove that familiars aren't useful."

 

[Mercule]

Frankly don't care if they were crap - they were an iconic aspect of Wizards and Sorcerers. If you played an arcane caster, you had a funky animal on your shoulder. Its just the way it was.

Not so much. I've never considered familiars worth the 100gp -- or whatever. They weren't iconic to wizards. They were just iconic to class abilities that didn't get used.

 

[cdrcjsn]

oops

 

[cdrcjsn]

I have a player in my campaign who has a fairly important familiar. It's a little flittering bat made of shadow that talks to him, spies, and whispers for him to do evil things. How should I best model this in 4th Edition, using the economy of actions?

Cantrips. Seriously.

You can have the thematic effects of spells described as you want.

Mage Hand doesn't have to look like a hand if you want. It can be a shadowy bat that flies away from you to lift and carry things.

Ghost Sound can be your invisible bat making the noise to cause distractions.

Light can be your shadowy bat "familiar" emitting a dark and sinister flickering purple and red light that illuminates the same area and has the same in-game effect.

Basically as long as the mechanics are the same, you can flavor spells according to how you want.

Everyone now gets Spell Thematics for free.

Look up page 54/55 under Flavor Text.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

By that logic, why have Gather Information (or Streetwise) skill in the first place?

Don't know about people YOU play with, but people I play with tend to reward cleverness and make sure that if you have a class feature, it benefits you.

Maybe you could be less condescending, please? Just a thought.

 

[VannATLC]

I never targetted Familiars unless they were obviously being used with an 'untargettable' mindset.

(IE, I have my raven familiar, which is flying everywhere, in a deep forest, full of orcs. Orcs with Bows. Or you know, a forest with Eagles and real birds of prey.)

However, virtually no familiars survived, due to AoE spells.

 

[Zogmo]

Maybe you could be less condescending, please? Just a thought.

Maybe you could be a little less condescending, please?
Just a thought.

Lizard, I didn't see your comment as condescending.