D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

[Rossbert]

That's a great way of thinking about. "Look, you can find the tomb, brave its dangers, and face down the boss at the end in order to get the sword. Or you can find this other tomb, brave its dangers, and face down the boss at the end in order to get the ingredients to make a sword just like it. Take your pick. The magic store would be happy to provide you with some rare inks and a live carp, if that will help."

Less one just like it (unless they are following really good legends or other Intel) and more if you go this way you get whatever ancient treasure is in there, if you go the other way you can get the thing you need to make this specific thing you want (again assuming the research is good, but it would be a dick move to make them put in the effort and find that it isn't an actual component).

 

[Ancalagon]

Thayan enclaves were a retcon and it was a 3E thing to enable magic item buying in 3E FR. Early FR did not have magic shops. Early 2E was more or elss the same as 1E you could not buy magic items. 1E had a sell price but once again you could not buy.

At least in the modern mentality you could not buy whatever you wanted ie something specific which 3E kind of enabled. 4E you did not even need a shop just a pile of gold and a ritual and 1 hour.

So its basically disingenuous to claim that magic items for sale are baked in to FR. I would imagine Thayan enclaves are long gone.

Yup, well said. FR was always modified - outrageously some might say - to make it be a "near perfect" fit to the D&D rules. So when magical items became trade goods, someone had to pick up that torch - and red wizards of thay it is.

Because of that tradition of change, we can therefore conclude that 5E FR *definitely does not* have comprehensive magic shops.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Thayan enclaves were a retcon and it was a 3E thing to enable magic item buying in 3E FR. Early FR did not have magic shops. Early 2E was more or elss the same as 1E you could not buy magic items. 1E had a sell price but once again you could not buy.

At least in the modern mentality you could not buy whatever you wanted ie something specific which 3E kind of enabled. 4E you did not even need a shop just a pile of gold and a ritual and 1 hour.

So its basically disingenuous to claim that magic items for sale are baked in to FR. I would imagine Thayan enclaves are long gone.

Anybody who dislikes annoying, setting-damaging retcons would probably find that pretty persuasive.

 

[Zardnaar]

Here is how I look at magic items. Note D&D worlds do not have somehting like a modern economy.


Artefacts are basically unavailable for sale at any price (or at least very very rarely it might get sold to get rid of it by a widow etc). IRL these are things that are naitonal treasures- the Mona Lisa, the Japanese imperial regalia, things like that.

Legendary and very rare are things that are not unique (more than one exists) but they are virtually impossible to buy regardless of how much money you have. IRL it would be things like a a Pharoahs body, a Tiger tank. If such items are ever sold its more likely you have to be in the right place at the right time and be well connected (a masterwork painting gets sold).

The more common items are obviously a lot more common but they can't be bought on the open market. A +1 sword would be like trying to get a WW2 bren gun or limited production car or antique sword. Without Ebay its gonna require effort to find. You have to go and find the right seller and/or make an effort to get one (assuming you can find it). You might be able to buy magic sword for example but getting a specific type would be good luck.

Being an adventurer of course you can find such things easier than an average person. Being a soldier in WW2 for example finding a MP-44 late war would be a lot easier than trying to find one 70 years after in any particular location.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Being a soldier in WW2 for example finding a MP-44 late war would be a lot easier than trying to find one 70 years after in any particular location.

Or you could try raiding the lair/tomb of a former Nazi general who became a Lich.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Having just finished going through and re-doing magic item pricing for my own game I can say this much in defense of those authors/designers: it's hard!

SHARE!

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Thayan enclaves were a retcon and it was a 3E thing to enable magic item buying in 3E FR. Early FR did not have magic shops. Early 2E was more or elss the same as 1E you could not buy magic items. 1E had a sell price but once again you could not buy.

At least in the modern mentality you could not buy whatever you wanted ie something specific which 3E kind of enabled. 4E you did not even need a shop just a pile of gold and a ritual and 1 hour.

So its basically disingenuous to claim that magic items for sale are baked in to FR. I would imagine Thayan enclaves are long gone.

Guess we're talking about current Realms, since 5E is the edition in question here. Where in the current (5E) Realms do you see that the latest established Thayan operations are no longer so, are indeed like 1E now?

 

[Zardnaar]

Guess we're talking about current Realms, since 5E is the edition in question here. Where in the current (5E) Realms do you see that the latest established Thayan operations are no longer so, are indeed like 1E now?

Thay as a trading nation is basically gone. Even in 3E there were limits on what you could buy in the enclaves IIRC Lords of Darkness or Magic of Faerun covered it. They were more place your order here and wait vs buy anything you want off the shelf.

If the enclaves still exist they are probably dealing in common magic items and things like spell components.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Guess we're talking about current Realms, since 5E is the edition in question here. Where in the current (5E) Realms do you see that the latest established Thayan operations are no longer so, are indeed like 1E now?

Where in the current (5E) Realms do you see the Thayan operations? I have every single 5e book from WotC and can't recall any reference.

Honestly I have no idea what the Thayan operations even are...I could care less about FR "lore" and think the novels are trash...but you're trying to logic your way around Zard's point: clearly they retcon their world and their lore to match the latest edition. If you are going to complain about that, then you have to also complain about how the stuff you like was itself a retcon.

 

[Zardnaar]

Where in the current (5E) Realms do you see the Thayan operations? I have every single 5e book from WotC and can't recall any reference.

Honestly I have no idea what the Thayan operations even are...I could care less about FR "lore" and think the novels are trash...but you're trying to logic your way around Zard's point: clearly they retcon their world and their lore to match the latest edition. If you are going to complain about that, then you have to also complain about how the stuff you like was itself a retcon.

Exactly its what the spellplague was a massive ham fisted retcon they retconned away in 5E for the most part.

5E Realms is more like the original realms now (1E), the Savage north is a lot more erm Savage. Nesme and that town similar to Lolth name have been wiped out for example. 1E Realms was also the best one IMHO perhaps followed by early 3.0 due to how good the FRCS was. Early 2E was also not to bad (ignoring the Time of Troubles rubbish), 2E as a whole though not so great for FR at least metaplot related.