"No save or die", but now "20 and TPK".

[GoodKingJayIII]

From the Star Wars Saga errata:

A natural 20 on an area attack roll automatically hits all targets within the affected area, but area attacks do not deal double damage on a critical hit.

I suspect it will work this way in 4e as well.

 

[drothgery]

In SAGA, don't you add level or 1/2 level to damage rolls or something?

1/2 heroic level (so a nonheroic 20 gets no damage bonus; a jedi 10 gets a +5).

I wonder if that'll be applicable for spells, too? Interesting difference b/t fighters and wizards is always the fact that fighters have a pretty stable amount of damage (most of it comes from set bonuses), while wizards are usually rolling tons of dice, and thus it varies.

I'm hoping the 'fireball no longer does 1d6/level' is an indication that buckets of dice are out for high-level direct damage spells. Finding 4d6, or even 8d6, not such a big problem. But my warmage is 17th level, and I need to borrow dice when he casts something that doesn't hit a level cap. Also along those lines, anything that needs more than 4 dice uses six-siders, okay? Maybe WoD players have a ton of d10s. But coming up with lots of d4s or d8s or d12s for that one oddball spell/power is annoying.

 

[Gundark]

This is assuming that damage for 4e spells is calculated the same way as 3e. Didn't Fireball get confirmed that it isn't Xd6 anymore? If the damage on spells isn't nearly as great maybe the crits won't be as deadly.

agreed. This is an important point to remember. Dragon breath might not be XdY anymore.

 

[nightspaladin]

The problem with using this example is that Dragon fights are supposed to be top of the food chain fights.

If you are going to jump a dragon, and you haven't figured out someway to deal with its' breath weapon, either via magical or mundane means, you are already dead.

Look at 3.x as an example of how a breath weapon might be a tpk. Great Red wyrm deals 24d10 as a breath weapon with a save DC of 40 just for half damage. That's more than enough to fry any non front line combatant, and on a decent roll enough to tpk.

If you party is stupid enough to get into this situation, then you are probably going to have to stop the game to help them build new characters anyways, because clearly they don't understand D&D in the slightest.

 

[billd91]

If you are going to jump a dragon, and you haven't figured out someway to deal with its' breath weapon, either via magical or mundane means, you are already dead.

<snip>

If you party is stupid enough to get into this situation, then you are probably going to have to stop the game to help them build new characters anyways, because clearly they don't understand D&D in the slightest.

I think this is a bit uncharitable. I've run situations in which the PCs did not expect to encounter a dragon and yet felt compelled to get involved to defend NPCs against the dragon attack.

The way I understand D&D, it's not just about planning an assault on an obstacle like Ocean's 11 planning a casino heist. It's also about larger than life adventuring and playing the character, which is often done by the seat of the player's pants.

 

[F4NBOY]

Maybe a 20 isn't a automatic hit anymore.
I don't like auto hits and auto crits together.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The way I understand D&D, it's not just about planning an assault on an obstacle like Ocean's 11 planning a casino heist.

Nope - sorry. You're trying to emulate a movie. You're not allowed to do that when playing D&D.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Unless the dragon's breath weapon/AoE attack has average damage equal to half the max HP of the party member with the highest HP (this seems unlikely) then a critical hit with it would not wipe out an entire party.

I'd guess a dragon's breath weapon (on a succesful roll) typcially would wipe out 1/4 of the max hits of the party member with the most HP and about 1/2 the HP of the guy with the lowest HP. So assuming his breath weapon critically hit and the PCs have no defensive abilities to mitigate (action points?) the damage the tank will be at 1/2 max HP and the caster at 0 HP and everyone else somewhere in between.

Edit: If critical hits with aoe attacks do deal double damage they might be too good. Even if it won't wipe out the entire party.

 

[Cadfan]

Unless the dragon's breath weapon/AoE attack has average damage equal to half the max HP of the party member with the highest HP (this seems unlikely) then a critical hit with it would not wipe out an entire party.

I'd guess a dragon's breath weapon (on a succesful roll) typcially would wipe out 1/4 of the max hits of the party member with the most HP and about 1/2 the HP of the guy with the lowest HP. So assuming his breath weapon critically hit and the PCs have no defensive abilities to mitigate (action points?) the damage the tank will be at 1/2 max HP and the caster at 0 HP and everyone else somewhere in between.

I think a dragon's breath weapon will be a lot lower than that. Notice in the example dragon combat the dragon breathed flame, surrounded itself with flame, breathed flame on a specific party member, and then breathed flame again later in the fight. If each hit took half the hit points from the weakest PC, you'd expect a lot of dead characters.

 

[Rechan]

I think a dragon's breath weapon will be a lot lower than that. Notice in the example dragon combat the dragon breathed flame, surrounded itself with flame, breathed flame on a specific party member, and then breathed flame again later in the fight. If each hit took half the hit points from the weakest PC, you'd expect a lot of dead characters.

Don't forget that the person that he breathed on was the wizard.