No small weapons - I'm okay with this

[Saeviomagy]

Don't smaller weapons generally get a bigger proficiency bonus to hit? So although the sword-and-board halfling is stuck using a shortsword for 1 less damage, he picks up a +1 to hit instead?

The only problem is the dual-wielder halfling isn't getting anything extra for using a dagger because his shortsword is already at the maximum proficiency bonus.

 

[Ds Da Man]

Which makes being a halfling character that does melee suboptimal. Personally, I think it's poor game design to have a race that is effectively gimped across a range of classes. It's one thing to be slightly better at a class (+2 Dex vs. +2 Str, for example); it's something else to be gimped (unless there is a compensation for the halfling fighter/paladin/warlord that we don't know about, ut since the +1 AC/+1 to hit from 3E appears to be gone ...)

I have no problem with halflings being suboptimal in melee. The are kids with swords. The would have a much bigger advantage with stealth, then face to face, hand-to-hand combat.

 

[arscott]

Yes, but we're talking about 4E, where the concept of racial stat penalties has gone the way of the dodo.

We don't know that. The phrase I've heard is "Net Positive". Which is not quite the same as "there will be no negatives."

And in fact I expect the halfling to be the only PHB race with penalty (in str, obviously).

The only problem is the dual-wielder halfling isn't getting anything extra for using a dagger because his shortsword is already at the maximum proficiency bonus.

Unless, of course, he's a rogue.

 

[Keenath]

Ugh, I forgot about this thread. Replies forthcoming!

I am perfectly OK with it too, I don't really care, but I fully understand where the nitpickers are coming from. If you accept that premise, than you state that Halfling smiths only make weapons for medium size creatures, not for themselves... it's a weird premise.

No, it doesn't imply that. Halfling smiths make all sorts of weapons sized for halflings -- but a halfling longsword just acts in all ways like a human shortsword, and a halfling spear acts just like a human shortspear.

This is really not a strange concept. There are material and balance* considerations to take into account when you change sizes like that. You can't just produce something that looks like a shrunk-down longsword, because it would be too thin to withstand normal use. You can't make a shrunk-down longbow because the cross-section of the wood is critical to being able to flex properly. You can't shrink a polearm at all without losing the reach that the long pole gives you, which is rather the point of making a polearm at all.

In other words, a halfling smith making a "longsword" would make something much thicker and stubbier-looking than a human longsword -- it would, in fact, look almost exactly like a human shortsword, because a shortsword (gladius, whatever) is shaped not for size of the hand-grip, but to do the job of cutting things on a battlefield.

The point is, a "halfling weapon" should be, at the very most, a question of replacing the grip with something sized more appropriately to their hands.

*The "center of gravity" kind of balance, not game balance.

 

[Keenath]

Which makes being a halfling character that does melee suboptimal. Personally, I think it's poor game design to have a race that is effectively gimped across a range of classes.

Normally it's just a fair tradeoff, a damage penalty and an accuracy bonus. The weapon proficiency bonus provides a handy way to make a dagger just as attractive as a shortsword or a longsword.

A human might choose to give up his longsword in favor of a shortsword or his shortsword in favor of a dagger to get the attack bonus -- a halfling is just forced to make that decision.

 

[Keenath]

There seems to be confusion over "small" weapons. I'm pretty sure "small" is simply used to note weapons that are two-handed for reasons OTHER than pure size -- a greatsword can't ever be "small", while a shortbow is small because it's two-handed only due to the nature of firing arrows. "Small" weapons are just two-handed for everyone rather than being refused to Halflings.

 

[Piratecat]

I really hated different sized weapons in 3.x. Glad to see this is apparently gone, assuming they have some nod to halflings not using greatswords.

 

[Kordeth]

I really hated different sized weapons in 3.x. Glad to see this is apparently gone, assuming they have some nod to halflings not using greatswords.

Ah, but halflings do use greatswords, they just happen to be mechanically identical to human longswords.