D&D General Nolzur creates inclusive miniatures, people can't handle it.

[Neonchameleon]

Really? I think 5e is maybe the best edition for playing low magic D&D. We have been playing it that way from the beginning. I've been saying that for a long time and I don't recall people telling me to play a different system. Of course I'm good at not letting comments like that bother me. So it could just be me?!

Bring back the Warlord and their ability to inspire people to get back into the fray from 0hp, double the hit dice so you don't need healing magic, and add a ritual system so that you don't have to be a caster to cast the important rituals and I'll agree with you. Until then it's 4e that's the best edition for low magic D&D

 

[Zardnaar]

Bring back the Warlord and their ability to inspire people to get back into the fray from 0hp, double the hit dice so you don't need healing magic, and add a ritual system so that you don't have to be a caster to cast the important rituals and I'll agree with you. Until then it's 4e that's the best edition for low magic D&D

2E is best imho. 4E still to gamist with low magic.

Historical series snd spells and magic say hi.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Bring back the Warlord and their ability to inspire people to get back into the fray from 0hp, double the hit dice so you don't need healing magic, and add a ritual system so that you don't have to be a caster to cast the important rituals and I'll agree with you. Until then it's 4e that's the best edition for low magic D&D

Warlord my beloved.

 

[dave2008]

Bring back the Warlord and their ability to inspire people to get back into the fray from 0hp, double the hit dice so you don't need healing magic, and add a ritual system so that you don't have to be a caster to cast the important rituals and I'll agree with you. Until then it's 4e that's the best edition for low magic D&D

You don't need more HD, we do fine without a cleric or a healer at all. I also don't think a warlord type is needed, since we don't have one and it works great. Not that I mind if there is a warlord. Ritual system would be great too - but then again that isn't really low-magic is it?

The problem with 4e is it assumed you had to have magical equipment or you quickly fell behind in the numbers. That isn't the case in 5e. I don't really ever need to hand out magic items in 5e and the game works great (in fact it is assumed you don't by the numbers). And that isn't even getting into the issue of "martial magic" that some people had (which I didn't btw)

That being said, the issue isn't really whether or not 5e is better at low-magic, the issue was that someone was being told it couldn't or shouldn't be done with 5e. I am here to say it can and possible should be done with 5e. I truly believe the math and the game works better with a low/no magic assumption.

Let's not forget there are already rules in the DMG for non-magic healing if you want them. Not 4e levels, but pretty close!

Spoiler: healing surges

Healing Surges​

This optional rule allows characters to heal up in the thick of combat and works well for parties that feature few or no characters with healing magic, or for campaigns in which magical healing is rare.

As an action, a character can use a healing surge and spend up to half his or her Hit Dice. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s Constitution modifier. The character regains hit points equal to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll.

A character who uses a healing surge can’t do so again until he or she finishes a short or long rest.

Under this optional rule, a character regains all spent Hit Dice at the end of a long rest. With a short rest, a character regains Hit Dice equal to his or her level divided by four (minimum of one die).

For a more superheroic feel, you can let a character use a healing surge as a bonus action, rather than as an action.

Spoiler: Epic Heroism

Epic Heroism​

This variant uses a short rest of 5 minutes and a long rest of 1 hour. This change makes combat more routine, since characters can easily recover from every battle. You might want to make combat encounters more difficult to compensate.

Spellcasters using this system can afford to burn through spell slots quickly, especially at higher levels. Consider allowing spellcasters to restore expended spell slots equal to only half their maximum spell slots (rounded down) at the end of a long rest, and to limit spell slots restored to 5th level or lower. Only a full 8-hour rest will allow a spellcaster to restore all spell slots and to regain spell slots of 6th level or higher.

 

[Zardnaar]

You don't need more HD, we do fine without a cleric or a healer at all. I also don't think a warlord type is needed, since we don't have one and it works great. Not that I mind if there is a warlord. Ritual system would be great too - but then again that isn't really low-magic is it?

The problem with 4e is it assumed you had to have magical equipment or you quickly fell behind in the numbers. That isn't the case in 5e. I don't really ever need to hand out magic items in 5e and the game works great (in fact it is assumed you don't by the numbers). And that isn't even getting into the issue of "martial magic" that some people had (which I didn't btw)

That being said, the issue isn't really whether or not 5e is better at low-magic, the issue was that someone was being told it couldn't or shouldn't be done with 5e. I am here to say it can and possible should be done with 5e. I truly believe the math and the game works better with a low/no magic assumption.

Depends on your idea of low magic I suppose. Ban most of the phb?

 

[dave2008]

Depends on your idea of low magic I suppose. Ban most of the phb?

If you want - sure. I don't think that is required, but different people have different tastes.

 

[Voadam]

The problem with 4e is it assumed you had to have magical equipment or you quickly fell behind in the numbers. That isn't the case in 5e. I don't really ever need to hand out magic items in 5e and the game works great (in fact it is assumed you don't by the numbers). And that isn't even getting into the issue of "martial magic" that some people had (which I didn't btw)

4e assumed a core three magic items per PC to establish the baseline math until you got the fantastic inherent bonuses optional rule in DMG2 and Dark Sun Campaign Setting.

Then you could go nuts in your low magic Sword and Sorcery no magic item high action adventuring campaign.

 

[dave2008]

4e assumed a core three magic items per PC to establish the baseline math until you got the fantastic inherent bonuses optional rule in DMG2 and Dark Sun Campaign Setting.

Then you can go nuts in your low magic Sword and Sorcery no magic item high action adventuring campaign.

The default also assumed those core items were upgraded appropriately as well.

Yes you could run 4e without magic items once those options came out (or if you just did it yourself like we did). You can do that in 5e with the PHB, DMG, & MM.

Look, I never said 4e wasn't good for low magic. We played 4e with low magic and I defending it as such on the old WotC boards. However, for our style of low magic campaign, 5e has proved to be a better fit.

 

[the Jester]

Perhaps, but there are options available to mitigate these issues; options that already exist within the typical D&D game:

--- fly spells, or flight devices, on the wheelchair user
--- enchantments on the wheelchair itself to make it fly, or otherwise able to handle difficult terrain (a "water walking" wheelchair would kinda rock, now I think about it)
--- enchantments on the wheelchair to make it shrink to a very small size when not in use, for ease of carriage (cf Ebony Fly, Onyx dog, etc., or even ye olde Shrink spell)
--- alternate means of transport for situations when-where the wheelchair doesn't work e.g. in GoT Bran spends a lot of time being pulled around on a sled; he also has a bespoke saddle allowing him to ride a horse, and so on.

Sure! And those are great solutions at a certain point in the campaign. Some don't always work- e.g. when the party is too low level to cast fly and in a low-magic setting where something like a magic wheelchair would be very jarring.

I'm not saying that pcs and npcs with mobility (or other) issues aren't, or shouldn't be, a thing; I'm saying that the issues are issues, and (at least in my game) that should be acknowledged. There is no point in being in a wheel chair if it doesn't have any affect on your character. I have no problem with the solutions you posted above, but I do think it's problematic to assume they will always be available.

 

[Umbran]

So, full disclosure - I grew up with a sibling with cerebral palsy, who used a wheelchair their entire life. We played a whole lot of RPGs together as kids and teens.

There is a lesson to be learned, a hard pill for some to swallow, once you realize that you live in a nation with hundreds of millions of others, and a planet with nearly 8 billion people on it. And in saying this, I will likely cheese a bunch of people off. But it is true, regardless. Sorry....

Sometimes, your opinion is not relevant.

Sometimes, it isn't about you. It is about someone else, and you should defer to them.

Failing to do this is, unfortunately, a form of discrimination. It can be unconscious - an expression of the systemic and persistent biases present in our culture. But, it includes the implicit assumption and assertion of dominance - that your thoughts on the matter are as important, or more important, than theirs. This is true whether it is a man inserting himself on women's health issues, an older person asserting that all kids these days need to do to be wealthy is stop buying Starbucks, or able people asserting they know what disabled folks should have.

Maybe, if you don't use assistive technologies, don't worry about whether a mini representing it has wheels, legs, or treads, folks. Sit back and let the people who have the lived experience choose what they need and want, and let them have it without you trying to grab hold of it and make it yours, too.