D&D General Nolzur creates inclusive miniatures, people can't handle it.

[the Jester]

I like DnD growing to be able to incorporate more sources of inspiration over time. One thing I've been constantly frustrated about though is the system gradually losing the ability to cater to players who like grittier and lower magic settings. With 5e this has got so extreme that if you make a post asking how to run a low magic setting, you just get "play a different system" as the response.

I have a low magic alternate material plane in my campaign. Here's how it runs:

• The Rule of One: No magical effect does more than "1"- one die of damage, one round duration, +1 bonus, one target, one of anything.
• Range: No magical effect has a range of greater than 5'.
• Magic Items: There ain't none. (Well, there is one artifact in the plane, plus whatever pcs bring with them.) There are a variety of masterwork items that have nonmagical bonuses.

This means magic is generally weak, with the strongest stuff being things that impose conditions briefly or (in older editions) instant death effects. It also makes magic risky; the limited range makes it impossible to stay in the back and sling spells.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Bring back the Warlord and their ability to inspire people to get back into the fray from 0hp, double the hit dice so you don't need healing magic, and add a ritual system so that you don't have to be a caster to cast the important rituals and I'll agree with you. Until then it's 4e that's the best edition for low magic D&D

I can only speak for myself, naturally, but when I talk about a low magic system, I also mean something that has low "magical" abilities. If something does the same thing as magic but is just called an ability, it makes no difference to me. It's still magic, just by a different name. So while technically 4e has a lot of non-magical stuff, it still feels to me like every class has magic (or superpowers if you want to call it).

When I talk about low magic, I'm thinking of more like WFRP1e, or even the aforementioned AiME for 5e.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I can only speak for myself, naturally, but when I talk about a low magic system, I also mean something that has low "magical" abilities. If something does the same thing as magic but is just called an ability, it makes no difference to me. It's still magic, just by a different name. So while technically 4e has a lot of non-magical stuff, it still feels to me like every class has magic (or superpowers if you want to call it).

When I talk about low magic, I'm thinking of more like WFRP1e, or even the aforementioned AiME for 5e.

And my line that way has already been crossed by hit points and no long term injuries. Any edition of D&D uses action movie physics rather than gritty physics.

And no, shouting to someone to get back onto their feet isn't magic. And nor are ... any of the 4e fighter moves. All cinematic, yes. But I don't consider Die Hard to be a film with magic either.

 

[Umbran]

So while technically 4e has a lot of non-magical stuff, it still feels to me like every class has magic (or superpowers if you want to call it).

And no, shouting to someone to get back onto their feet isn't magic.

Folks,

Can we not let a thread on representation become a re-litigation of 4e or warlords?

Thanks much.

 

[Voadam]

There is no point in being in a wheel chair if it doesn't have any affect on your character.

There can definitely be a point.

Someone could want to see/play a fantasy version of themself as a powerful competent amazing D&D character balanced against other competent D&D characters.

So a parkour skatepark wheelchairist who gets by on being anime awesome and is the mechanical equal of other high action PCs and is not impeded by being in a chair.

Others could view such a character/characterization as trivializing their real life hardships so the point can vary tremendously.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And my line that way has already been crossed by hit points and no long term injuries. Any edition of D&D uses action movie physics rather than gritty physics.

And no, shouting to someone to get back onto their feet isn't magic. And nor are ... any of the 4e fighter moves. All cinematic, yes. But I don't consider Die Hard to be a film with magic either.

There's the "but hit points!" Argument again, ready to raise its ugly anything. whenever anyone speaks positively about simulation. I am beyond over it at this point. Hit points are not the final word on anything.

Edit: didn't see the mod comment. I'll leave it there.

 

[Neonchameleon]

There's the "but hit points!" Argument again, ready to raise its ugly anything. whenever anyone speaks positively about simulation.

That is a strawman.

WFRP, GURPS, and Torchbearer among others do simulationist games and I wasn't speaking about them or the concept in general. The problem isn't the concept of simulation as you seem to be implying. The problem is pretending a game built round hardcore gamist mechanics such as character classes, hit points, and character levels does simulation well.

 

[Autumnal]

@Umbran is my posting hero of the day, and 100%. I know that I, a white dude raised in an old-fashioned secure middle class household in a great neighborhood and all, have a really hard time with the concept of not having anything to say about a lot of others’ experiences and needing to just shut and listen a while. I’m better at it than I was, but oh lord, so far to go.

In meantime, I need to think about the assets I’d use to make a good wheelchair in Ironsworn. It’s easy in Starforged.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That is a strawman.

WFRP, GURPS, and Torchbearer among others do simulationist games and I wasn't speaking about them or the concept in general. The problem isn't the concept of simulation as you seem to be implying. The problem is pretending a game built round hardcore gamist mechanics such as character classes, hit points, and character levels does simulation well.

I've seen several versions that do the job reasonably well, so agree to disagree. For 5e, the one that comes closest for me is Level Up, and I have my own houserules for that as well. For D&D-adjacents in general, the best for my purposes by far is ACKS, based mostly off B/X with a heavy emphasis on world simulation and the domain game.

Both use hit points and classes. So don't tell it can't be done please. Either we fundamentally disagree on this issue, or you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Umbran]

There's the "but hit points!" Argument again, ready to raise its ugly anything. whenever anyone speaks positively about simulation. I am beyond over it at this point.

Mod note:
Because people who are "beyond over it" are going to hijack threads about disability to argue it again?
This isn't the place for you to have this fight. Take it elsewhere.

That's two warnings to keep it on topic. Folks, don't be the third.