Non-combat, non-magic feats: Why are there no good ones?

[drnuncheon]

Many class Special Abilities would make excellent Feats: Fast Movement; Inspire Courage, Fascinate, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Inspire Greatness; Nature Sense, Animal Companion, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step; Divine Grace, Divine Health, Aura of Courage; Skill Mastery.

I'd hate to see too many class abilities become feats - it waters down the classes and makes it a whole lot less cool to be a Druid or a Bard or a Rogue. (That's the problem a lot of people have with the entire ELH being based on feats, too...)

Anyway, the reason that most of the feats are combat-oriented is simple: the combat rules are the most detailed set of rules in the game. (That's true of almost every RPG, though - the only one I know of where social interaction is given the same level of detail is Pelgrane's Dying Earth game.) Everything else is pretty much handled with a simple die roll, and there's only so many ways you can affect a simple die roll.

That said, the aforementioned Dying Earth may well have some inspiration. It allows characters to have certain 'styles' for their Persuade and Rebuff skills, which might be translatable into Feats and/or "social maneuvers". I haven't come up with anything I'm happy with yet, though.

J

 

[Breakdaddy]

The new AEG book Mercenaries has a few cool non combat or spell related feats like Contortionist, Inspire Loyalty, Instructor, and Sign Language to name a few. Very cool supplement, although most of the feats are admittedly very combat oriented.

 

[Pielorinho]

Horse-Fu
Benefits: Any trained horse you ride will obey your subtle mental commands, performing any action that is not-immediately life-threatening, as long as the horse is physically able to do so. This ability also extends to any horse within eyeshot that you have ridden for at least 8 hours total, though if the horse is beyond touch range, you must give verbal commands to it.

POSSE, dammit! I said, bring me a POSSE!

Daniel

 

[LostSoul]

Here's some ideas:

Contacts:
Each adventure, for a number of times equal to your Charisma mod, you can make a roll to see if you know a "contact" to help you out with something. Make a Charisma check vs. DC 10 (modified by situation) to determine if you know a "contact" in your area. This "contact" is an NPC under the DM's control.

Rival:
Each adventure, for a number of times equal to your Charisma mod, you can make a Cha check vs. DC 10 to see if one of your Rivals shows up on the scene. This rival is an NPC under the DM's control.

Plot Twist:
You have the strange ability to notice twists in fate.
Once per game session, you can call out a Plot Twist, forcing the DM to introduce your totally unexpected element into the current plot. The DM has the final say in all plot matters, and can override a Plot Twist, or twist it in any way he wishes.

Here comes the Cavalry:
Your friends show up at just the right time to save your bacon.
Each adventure, for a number of times equal to your Charisma mod, you can make a Cha check vs. DC 10 to see if one of your Friends shows up on the scene. This Friend is an NPC under the DM's control.

 

[ShawnLStroud]

Does anyone else agree with me that for people other than warriors and flash-bang mages, feats seem kinda pointless?

Yes! Yes I do. It's a reminder of how much more a tactical figures game DnD has become. I'm not sure, however, if there's really a real demand for more "role-playing" feats. For example, I have yet to read a published adventure that points the players to a non-violent/social solution to its conflict/problem.

With an overwhelming propensity for roleplaying situations to be either lead-ins or denouments of violence, you can see where non-violence related feats are few and far between.

 

[hong]

Yes I do. It's a reminder of how much more a tactical figures game DnD has become.

Yep, isn't it great?

 

[kengar]

Akin to the Leadership Feat, you could have Reputations. A rep could be positive or negative and affect things like Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff (Think about it; Batman has a heck of a rep in the criminal underworld. Even if he were barely standing after a fight with the Joker, he could probably still scare off a couple muggers). Negative reps have the bonus of potentially hurting opponents' morale (you're just that scary!); whereas positive reps may improve your allies' morale:

Fezzik: "Inigo, there's more than 30 men."
Inigo: "What's the difference? We have him!" (points to Westley's corpse)

I know those are combat-related, but it could translate into RP situations, too. Cost of goods in town. Folks avoiding you v. asking for help. Heck, how about some adventurer FANBOYS? Following the positive Rep PC around town, asking questions; "So, is that the sword you used to kill all those ogres? Is it?! Is it?! That is SO COOL! Is it true you beheaded 4 of 'em in one swing?" etc.

You could also have the local toughs challenge the players in town (like gunfighters) to fights or contests. Wizards & Sorcerers could have inopportune challenges to mageduels. Some yahoo popping up when they're busy, trying to make a name for themselves.

The trick here is the feats would carry a price. Usually a Feat is more of a straight benefit. Just a thought.

 

[Doppleganger]

There are a number of feats in Spycraft that might fit the bill (especially ones listed as Covert feats and Style feats). For example, "Mark" (essentially reveals 3 of another person's skills to you), "Personal Staff" (buncha non-combatant butlers, cooks, and drivers around you), "Undermine" (sow seeds of doubt in another person, giving them penalties), "Hidden Run" (move normal speed without hide/move silent penalties), or "Traceless" (removes tracks/signs of your presence). Plus with what Breakdaddy already mentioned about the Mercenaries book, I'd say AEG is making a concerted effort to give the non-combat feats a helpful boost. Kudos to them for trying!!

 

[BluWolf]

Originaly from Rangerwickett

No, I most definitely do not want status feats.

I have to agree with Rangerwickett here. I'm of the opinion that social status issues are better resolved with templates.

If your party compeletes the king's quest and he deeds you a small keep on the edge of his kingdom you could be granted the Land Holders template.

This template would give you certain rights (taxation, law enforcement, lordship) and responsibilities (defense, geld, military service) and some benfits (income, prestige, benefits to certain skills like gather info or intimidate).

But it should be a template and not a feat because it can be taken away (and if it is your DM can grant you the former land lord template ).

IMO feats should only be permanent addition sto the character that they cannot loose (ordinarily-I understand ambidexterity can become difficult after a fight with a vorpal weilding opponent).

However, there are some social or status oriented feats that could be permanent. Royal Born is an example. Think Aragorn. No matter what he did he could not forsake his royal lineage.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I posted this in another thread which has gained no interest but I think it is worth posting here too...

The fact that they are considering the possibility of a game including a wider range of non-combat encounters gives me some hope that they may have improved the rules relating to non-combat activities - and even if they don't include any new non-combat feats per se, at least it may open the door to new possibilities for others to develop

(from WotC boards)

The short answer to your question is that it's like D&D.

The longer answer: every encounter has an encounter level (much like ELs in D&D). Encounters that include defeating opponents base their EL on the opponents' CRs. But since d20 Modern adventures are more story-oriented (often) than D&D, there's also a pretty comprehensive system for assigning ELs to encounters that don't include combat. (Setting up a meeting with a powerful mob boss to ask him about a competitor's organization? The GM can figure out the EL for that encounter, even though it probably shouldn't involve combat.) Experience is granted based on the EL of the encounter.

Hope that helps.

--------------------
Charles Ryan
Editor, RPG R&D
Wizards of the Coast