Non-Core Class Survivor Spin-off: Pro-psionics or anti-psionics

[Tiberius]

I think there's a time and place for psionics, and it was called Dark Sun. Outside of that, I find psionics to be too out of genre for my tastes. As was previously mentioned, "psychics with psuedomodern terminology" doesn't mesh well with the standard swords & sorcery settings. Further, I object to some of the systems used by the ruleset. The psionic feats are really wacky in parts (e.g. Up the Walls, Deep Impact), to the point of pulling me out of the game when they're used. I'm one of the wierdos who loves the Vancian magic system, and I have no patience for spell point systems in my D&D. I have a couple more objections, but I should probably go to work instead of expand upon them. In short: psionics, boo!

 

[Presto2112]

Psionics? What are these psionics?

Oh yeah, isn't that the alternate magic system that I've seen in play and wreck an ongoing campaign enough to completely disavow their entire existence? And now I'm acknowledging it. Thanks a lot, guys!

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I'm sort of mystified why there are some people that hate psionics so much. Any of you care to clarify for me?

Because I prefer just one magic system.
Because I've seen psionics used in campaigns in 1E and it was only used ineffectively or was so powerful it ruined the game.
Because it doesn't fit into my view of a swords/sorcery/might/magic game.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Eh, I dont hate psionics, but I dont have any particular attachment to them either. I only started voting anti-psionic because I like the remaining classes better...ok, and I'm a bit bitter that the Totemist got voted out and they didnt. That to.

 

[lukelightning]

I have a minor dislike of psionics. Despite the fact that they are explicitly the same as magic in regards to detection, saves, dispelling, etc. they still carry a significant "psionics is different and therefore special and powerful" fluff.

If psionics were renamed "mind magic" it would solve this problem.

Plus I don't like power point systems.

 

[Abraxas]

The anti-psi group started the tactic.

Is this based on a comment posted or on some real evidence? - cause it would seem that it may have been suggested by someone who dislijked psionics, but it wasn't acted upon (except for the pro-psi camp)

I don't care for psionics either pro or con in a fantasy campaign and the pseudo scientific terminology doesn't bother me one bit - but I dislike spell point systems (at least the ones I've seen to date), and thats what they happened to use for psionics, so I dislike them by association.

 

[rounser]

Six shooters in the hands of a single NPC in the entire world like Murlynd can be interesting, and cthulhoid monsters with psionics makes them creepier and more exotic, and a crashed spaceship with robots might be nice for a change....but six shooters in the hands of a PC robot psion is too "24/7" for all of these elements, IMO.

So, IMO, psionics is good for stuff that's supposed to be weird and alien like Dark Sun, illithids and githyanki. In PC hands, or as a major setting element in a setting not that different from D&D's implied setting, it's too much pepper spoiling the meal. It therefore doesn't deserve status in the core books any more than laser rifles do, IMO.

 

[JustaPlayer]

Is this based on a comment posted or on some real evidence? - cause it would seem that it may have been suggested by someone who dislijked psionics, but it wasn't acted upon (except for the pro-psi camp)

I don't care for psionics either pro or con in a fantasy campaign and the pseudo scientific terminology doesn't bother me one bit - but I dislike spell point systems (at least the ones I've seen to date), and thats what they happened to use for psionics, so I dislike them by association.

It's a real tactic. There was some discussion about the order they would vote off the Psi classes then they started to fall in that order. There is a problem with the overall strategy though. I won't say it here because it's amusing that they anti-psis haven't figured it out yet.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I don't mind psionics, but I don't think that their rules are structured well enough to be used at this point.

As for a pro-psionic voting plan, it seemed to me that they would wait for the non-psi class with the most votes and mass vote in the last few hours.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I would've preferred it if 3E psionics was just a simplified and finely-tuned version of 2E psionics, which weren't all that bad aside from a few complicated or vague powers.

And double jeopardy, and psionic combat (yeah, it was bad even in 2e), and complicated rules about Contact and "opening your minds" and lots of save-less powers and critical failures (using penalties rather than limits to balance powers), etc. If the rules are so complicated it's always causing confion and problems, I would blame the rules.

Most psionic powers in 2E were very, very weak and limited in scope; devotions were like 1st-level spells or occasionally 2nd-level spells, and sciences were like 4th, 5th, or 6th-level spells, and the more powerful sciences or devotions had prerequisites too, which generally consisted of several weak powers that needed to be learned first. A revised version of 2E psionics would have been much more appropriate to D&D and less complicated, as well as having none of the ecto-bloat and crystal-fetish that 3.5E psionics retardedly includes.

Some devotions, maybe most, were the equivalent of low level powers. But not all. Some sciences were devotions like mid-level powers, but not all. You got sciences as early as 1st-level (when you could get Disintegrate, 3rd-level without "cheating" by using wild talents) so clearly something was wrong there. I think psionics needs power levels instead of the overly loose Devotion/Science/High Science structure. Pre-reqs are cool, so long as they're primarily flavor. I don't think it's okay to make a psionic power over-the-top just because it's a "discipline power" or has a pre-requisite.

For some reason, the designers never bother to put as much effort into balancing the psionic classes as they do with the spellcasters. So a handful of broken powers, or broken combinations of powers, slip through every time due to lax authors.

No kidding. Well, actually, I was a playtester for the XPH, and I know it gets the same amount of playtesting as other non-core books. There's some pretty broken stuff for spellcasters in non-core books. However, I don't think there's any non-spellcasting base class that gets a whole book to itself, except maybe one of the Incarnum classes, so they get less baggage. To be as balanced as core, psionics would need to be playtested for as long as the core rules were.