Nonlethal Damage

[Jimlock]

For me, the problem with the rule is that the player controls whether the damage is nonlethal or lethal. This should be determined by some other method because, in real life, it's hard to control whether you beat someone to death or just beat them unconscious (and that unconscious person is likely to have some real damage to him like broken bones and internal injuries).

I believe that a way to figure this out would be nothing less than "pretty complicated".

I might sound boring, for I use this same argument time and again in your threads, but:

The game is already complicated as it is.

To resolve something like that "realistically",

would normally involve another dice roll or some accounting based on the dice already rolled,

so as to figure out whether a hit deals lethal or nonlethal damage.

Even if you find a way to do that, you would not get the desirable result.

The hit-point system is so vague as it is...

...and made like that, so as to resolve damage in the most general of terms.

Personally, I do not see a way of getting what you want,

without some complicated changes in the combat system in general.

 

[domino]

Has anyone played the Star Wars d20 game? I think that their method for dealing with HP could come close to what people are talking about, but I've not played it in years, so I may be misremembering.

And of course, you'd have to heavily alter much of the system to make it balanced. It's something that things would need to be built up around, rather than something you can just bolt on.

 

[Water Bob]

But a coup de grace is a full round action, different from a normal attack. Not just any attack against a helpless opponent. So you can just make regular attacks, without needing to be forced to crit.

If I were DMing this, I'd allow it, but I would definitely keep the hp of the victim secret.

 

[Water Bob]

I believe that a way to figure this out would be nothing less than "pretty complicated".

I don't think so. I'm not saying I'm looking to change it, but if I were, I think I could come up with good rule that was easy to implement.

You could do something simple and say, "If total damage is odd, it's nonlethal damage, and if total damage is even, it's lethal damage." For starters, that would work easily and get the job done without a fuss or major change to the rules.

 

[denzoner]

Your game, make it up. Of just give him a saving throw every 10 minutes. The barmaid waking him up would be a heal check, the same check for stabilizing the dying.

 

[iamtheend]

I've dealt with this before and just beat the crap out of someone so they're doomed to be asleep for the next 8 years just like someone previously posted.

Like I deal with this when fighting a Troll. My question somewhat unrelated to what the OP intended this thread to discuss is does an unconscious creature automatically fail his drowning saves? Also is there a way in D&D to at least strangle an unconscious creature or hang one so they suffocate and die? I don't care to burn creatures and want cheaper and more cruel alternatives.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

My question somewhat unrelated to what the OP intended this thread to discuss is does an unconscious creature automatically fail his drowning saves?

Yes.

Also is there a way in D&D to at least strangle an unconscious creature or hang one so they suffocate and die? I don't care to burn creatures and want cheaper and more cruel alternatives.

 

[Water Bob]

It bothers me a bit that three guys can surround a fourth, kick the victim hard with their boots, over and over, using non-lethal damage, and never do any "real" damage to the guy. They can't beat him to death unless they take a -4 on their attacks (to get lethal damage).

In real life, we certainly can't control how bad we hurt someone if we keep on beating them. The rule in the game can be abused if a players wants an NPC to be unconscious for a long time.

I don't like that a player can count on knocking an NPC out with nonlethal damage. Why can't he hit too hard and crack the guy's skull?



I'm thinking of a simple House Rule to make nonlethal damage unpredictable, like it is in real life. When we kick someone who is on the ground, we don'd know if we've just bruised them or broken a rip that punctures a lung.

Here's what I'm thinking....

All rules remain the same when attempting nonlethal damage except for the damage itself. If total nonlethal damage is an Odd number, then the nonlethal damage is, indeed, nonlethal. If the damage is an Even number, then the damage is considered real lethal damage.

That means that 50% of the nonlethal damage attempted will be real damage.



Think that would work and be a bit more realistic?

 

[Celebrim]

I solve the infinite nonlethal damage problem in three ways:

1) If you crit an attack doing nonlethal damage, the bonus damage is all lethal.
2) If the target is already unconscious, half of all additional nonlethal damage is converted to lethal.
3) If you crit an unconscious or helpless target while doing nonlethal damage, you 'accidentally' inflict a coup de grace attack on them.

All rules remain the same when attempting nonlethal damage except for the damage itself. If total nonlethal damage is an Odd number, then the nonlethal damage is, indeed, nonlethal. If the damage is an Even number, then the damage is considered real lethal damage.

That means that 50% of the nonlethal damage attempted will be real damage.

That sounds like a reasonable alternative to me.

 

[Water Bob]

2) If the target is already unconscious, half of all additional nonlethal damage is converted to lethal.

Or, maybe rule that once a character is reduced to -1 nonlethal points, other nonlethal damage is not counted since the character is already unconscious.

Thus, PCs could not waylay on a downed NPC just to ensure the character is unconsious for several hours.