D&D (2024) Rules that annoy you

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Story time!

I had started playing 4e at my FLGS for public play (first Encounters, later LFR). I was sat at a table with a DM I didn't know. The adventure was loosely based on "Beyond the Crystal Cave", though it really didn't do the module justice- but I digress.

We found ourselves in a villa, and the DM waxed poetically about how opulent the furnishings were, the crystal plates, the gold tableware, the massive oak table.

When we finished the encounter, I asked about treasure. DM: "Oh no, there's no treasure here."

"Uh huh. Ok guys, let's start grabbing all this stuff. We got tapestries, that carpet, the decorative plates..."

DM (horrified): "What are you doing?!"

"Collecting the treasure?"

The man was truly aghast at the idea that I was willing to take some dead Firbolg's furniture. He tried to say it was all just flavor text!

"Listen, if you're saying it's all an illusion and it's worthless, that's cool. But you went on and on about how valuable everything looked, so why can't we take it?"

He'd apparently never encountered starving D&D characters before!

For me, this was SOP, but for him, this was a nightmare made manifest, lol.
Now that's a DM who needs some straightening out! :)
It's simply the case that several DM's I've played with over the years have this idea that the instant PC's get wealth, they should retire on a private island somewhere- the point of adventuring is to get rich, so doing so is obviously endgame, so they want you to slaughter 1000 orcs only to end up squabbling over one dented copper coin!

If you do get treasure, you should immediately blow it on ale and whores, Conan-style, so you'll be ready to accept the next adventure, no matter what it might be!

(Some DM's even seem terrified of players gaining any sort of power whatsoever, be it personal or temporal. I obviously don't play with those sorts anymore, but there was a time where it was that or not play, and I wasn't mature enough to realize that no D&D is actually better than bad D&D, lol.)
Fortunately, I've never encountered DMs like this.
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
1e is not cash-flush if you used the training for level-up rules (to bring up another rule that annoyed). For the hot minute we used that rule, we stripped everything to the studs and were still lean and hungry.
We've used training rules since day one (though modified from what Gygax had, there's still a significant cost involved); and while on occasion a character can't afford to train, IME most of the time training costs are fairly easily dealt with.

That said, if you're only counting non-magical wealth then sure, they'll be poor. Magical wealth counts too, however, and if some items have to be sold out of party treasury so people can afford to train then so be it.
 

Pauln6

Hero
Weapon Masteries.

I think I probably would have given up on D&D and switched completely to Shadowdark anyway, but Weapon Masteries annoy me so much that even without Shadowdark I probably would have found a new RPG. Which is a shame because in general I like the 2024 changes. Just playing without them doesn't seem like a good option because that would be a distinct nerf to only some classes.

So, yeah, I wish they weren't included, or that there was a balanced way to exclude them. (Or an alternative rule: e.g. "just add X damage to all attacks".)

P.S. And I HATE HATE HATE that you change your "masteries" after sleeping for 8 hours. I can handwave away an awful lot of metagamey cognitive dissonance, but what exactly do masteries represent if you swap them out while sleeping?
I'm more half and half. Barbarians and Paladins never really needed to be more powerful IMO so I doubt that removing masteries would make them feel under-powered. Rogues were a really fun, popular class which still gets cunning strike on top of the 2014 version so a slight dip in power but they were really popular before - I don't see that changing. I don't know what the changes to smiting mean for paladins in practice but they were probably edging towards being comparatively overpowered in 2014 so the slight nerf alongside more functional smites might be enough to keep them interesting without the masteries.

I do wonder if Rangers get enough in 2024 and Fighters definitely need a bit more spice IMO. You could always keep a more limited version of mastery for those two classes that can only be changed on a level up?

But as I said earlier, if you watch Conan the Barbarian, there is montage for the final battle where Conan swaps his sword for a Battle Axe (in game terms to obtain the topple mastery to dismount the attacking riders). If you think about the game cinematically, some of the stuff doesn't feel quite as metagamey (while other stuff like weapon juggling feels worse). Conan doesn't 'forget' how to use his sword but when the later sword fight happens he's just too under pressure to use his previous sap mastery and needs help from a Guardian of Faith spell. Realistically, given that most characters stick to about 3 weapons, the only time it's likely to happen in game is if a PC finds a cool new magic weapon, so you even have a magical excuse to explain swapping if you need one.

Nick is a clever way to help TWF with smaller weapons keep pace that avoids the pressure for silly combos to keep pace. It feels a shame to sacrifice this one altogether but, personally, I am happy for Rogues to have to consider whether they want a second change to inflict sneak damage or use their bonus action for something else.

Rogues, Paladins, and Barbarians could still take a level of fighter or a feat for weapons mastery, so someone who really wanted it might still get it.
 


Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
But as I said earlier, if you watch Conan the Barbarian, there is montage for the final battle where Conan swaps his sword for a Battle Axe (in game terms to obtain the topple mastery to dismount the attacking riders). If you think about the game cinematically, some of the stuff doesn't feel quite as metagamey (while other stuff like weapon juggling feels worse). Conan doesn't 'forget' how to use his sword but when the later sword fight happens he's just too under pressure to use his previous sap mastery and needs help from a Guardian of Faith spell. Realistically, given that most characters stick to about 3 weapons, the only time it's likely to happen in game is if a PC finds a cool new magic weapon, so you even have a magical excuse to explain swapping if you need one.

I'd hate it less if you acquired more masteries over time, but never forgot any.

Unfortunately one of WotC's design principles seems to be minimizing permanent decisions. Seems like just about everything is swappable either on a long rest or, at worst, when gaining a level. Very video-gamey, imo.

Alternately: don't limit the number of masteries. They are just features of weapons that martial classes get to use. Except, I guess, that nobody enforces weight limits in D&D, so martial characters would start carrying golf bags.

New idea for aWarlord class ability:
"May I suggest the 9-iron, sir?" As a bonus action, recommend to another character a different type of weapon to use. If the weapon has a mastery bonus different from their current weapon, and they switch to it, they gain your proficiency bonus on attack rolls they make before your next turn.
 
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James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Unsure if it's been mentioned, but I'm not a fan of how  sleep went from being a spell with its own mechanical twist (rolling dice equal to HP, not based on a save), to being just another "Wisdom save or suck" spell.

I do get that the HP version might be slower, but there's something satisfying about whittling down a group of monsters to low HP, and sending them all to sleep, with no save. A happy medium between the two approaches would've been nicer.
I felt that more spells should have worked the way sleep did- I liked the synergy between what the martials were doing (dealing damage) and what the casters could be doing (winning encounters by doing end runs around hit points).

I mean imagine a fight where the Fighter goes all out on a Fiend, Action Surges, and brings the enemy down to 10 hit points, and then the Cleric lands a Banishment. Well, that's that, then- but the Fighter's contribution was effectively meaningless!

If, on the other hand, Banishment had to deal with hit point totals, then you absolutely want your Fighter whaling on it, and it feels more like a team effort.
 
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James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
We've used training rules since day one (though modified from what Gygax had, there's still a significant cost involved); and while on occasion a character can't afford to train, IME most of the time training costs are fairly easily dealt with.

That said, if you're only counting non-magical wealth then sure, they'll be poor. Magical wealth counts too, however, and if some items have to be sold out of party treasury so people can afford to train then so be it.
Well, unless your DM doesn't like magic marts and claims there is no magic item trade as a result.

A stance I find a little far-fetched, but if it works for a given group, so be it.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
I'd hate it less if you acquired more masteries over time, but never forgot any.

Unfortunately one of WotC's design principles seems to be minimizing permanent decisions. Seems like just about everything is swappable either on a long rest or, at worst, when gaining a level. Very video-gamey, imo.

Alternately: don't limit the number of masteries. They are just features of weapons that martial classes get to use. Except, I guess, that nobody enforces weight limits in D&D, so martial characters would start carrying golf bags.

New idea for aWarlord class ability:
"May I suggest the 9-iron, sir?" As a bonus action, recommend to another character a different type of weapon to use. If the weapon has a mastery bonus different from their current weapon, and they switch to it, they gain your proficiency bonus on attack rolls they make before your next turn.
Shh! Don't talk about the Warlord! People might start getting their hopes up!
 

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