One quick bit of advice: split the party. Not necessarily into multiple groups with separate encounters (unless they're really big, of course) -- but if you use encounter designs that naturally split the party into multiple groups, well, super tank can't be -everywhere-. Put the NPC artillery on one end of the room, a NPC they ahve to save an another, and the controls for a painful trap somewhere in the middle, and make them choose how to deal with all of these simultaneously (or stick in one big lump and take the consequences).
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Noob DM needs additional help :) (adjusting difficulty)
- Thread starter WolfOwl77
- Start date
I'm still pretty new to DMing 4E as well - my party just hit 4th level last session. What I have found is that instead of one big solo monster, having 2-3 elites that are spread out a bit has worked better in making a challenging encounter.
I would also advise having the bad guys use terrain to their advantage - have some artillery in a protected area - treetops, ridgeline, etc or put some sort of hazard/trap in the middle of the combat.
Or, set them up with some bad guys that are faster than the party and have them attack via hit & run. The dwarf moves at five - goblins, orcs, hobgoblins move at 6 and I'm sure there are some other monsters that can move at 7 or faster. Does the dwarf run to catch up? Does the rest of the party run ahead of the dwarf with their moves of 6 or 7? Or, do they stay even with the dwarf and move at 5 (10 with a double move)
I would also advise having the bad guys use terrain to their advantage - have some artillery in a protected area - treetops, ridgeline, etc or put some sort of hazard/trap in the middle of the combat.
Or, set them up with some bad guys that are faster than the party and have them attack via hit & run. The dwarf moves at five - goblins, orcs, hobgoblins move at 6 and I'm sure there are some other monsters that can move at 7 or faster. Does the dwarf run to catch up? Does the rest of the party run ahead of the dwarf with their moves of 6 or 7? Or, do they stay even with the dwarf and move at 5 (10 with a double move)
Dr_Ruminahui
First Post
If you have a story reason for it, having everybody attack one character for one encounter can be a lot of fun for everyone. I did it with my group, where the warlord is heir to the thrown and someone who didn't want him to inherret sent a bunch of assassins after him. It was a blast, with the entire party working to peal assassins off of him and get them to attack someone else instead.
Now, reasons that made it fun (rather than frustrating) were:
1. I've only done it to him once;
2. It's not something I've done or am going to do to the group often;
3. The challenge rating of the encounter was pretty low (about n+1, I think);
4. The baddies had a lot of mobility and multi-shot powers that made them have to share the hurt some;
5. There was a party defender;
6. I had a valid story reason to do it so that his being "picked on" was justified; and
7. He wasn't the only (or even the primary) healer in the group.
Now, reasons that made it fun (rather than frustrating) were:
1. I've only done it to him once;
2. It's not something I've done or am going to do to the group often;
3. The challenge rating of the encounter was pretty low (about n+1, I think);
4. The baddies had a lot of mobility and multi-shot powers that made them have to share the hurt some;
5. There was a party defender;
6. I had a valid story reason to do it so that his being "picked on" was justified; and
7. He wasn't the only (or even the primary) healer in the group.
RigaMortus2
First Post
Here is my suggestion...
Use ranged attacks. Use them against him and his allies.
In order for him to mark effectively, he needs to get into melee range. Yeah, he can mark with a ranged attack, but all of the important Fighter powers are melee only, so he'd be giving up on good damage and effects if he retailiates with ranged attacks of his own.
So keep the ranged enemies away from the dwarven fighter. When he eventually does get into melee range with an enemy, have that enemy take the Total Defense action. While this will prevent the enemy from making a good attack, it will make the dwarf fighter miss more often. Basically, they will be tying each other up, allowing the other ranged attackers to ping the fighter and his allies.
Also, double check the math on the temp HPs. There has been erratta on how it works. At level 1, I think the max temp HPs you can get is about 11HPs, and that is if you hit with an invigorating attack and have a certain feat.
Assuming a 20 Con... +5 temp HP from Con for attacking w/ Invorating power, +5 temp HP from Con for HITTING w/ an Invigorating power, +1 temp HP from feat (whose name escapes me) = 11 temp HP.
Use ranged attacks. Use them against him and his allies.
In order for him to mark effectively, he needs to get into melee range. Yeah, he can mark with a ranged attack, but all of the important Fighter powers are melee only, so he'd be giving up on good damage and effects if he retailiates with ranged attacks of his own.
So keep the ranged enemies away from the dwarven fighter. When he eventually does get into melee range with an enemy, have that enemy take the Total Defense action. While this will prevent the enemy from making a good attack, it will make the dwarf fighter miss more often. Basically, they will be tying each other up, allowing the other ranged attackers to ping the fighter and his allies.
Also, double check the math on the temp HPs. There has been erratta on how it works. At level 1, I think the max temp HPs you can get is about 11HPs, and that is if you hit with an invigorating attack and have a certain feat.
Assuming a 20 Con... +5 temp HP from Con for attacking w/ Invorating power, +5 temp HP from Con for HITTING w/ an Invigorating power, +1 temp HP from feat (whose name escapes me) = 11 temp HP.
Yeah he's the tank, and he's marking enemies.
The thing I want to avoid though is nobody feeling threatened because all the mobs are on him, also this puts the focus of the fight all on him, and he's such a charismatic person to begin with I want to give the other players characters a chance to shine without interrupting the flow of the game too much.
If he's the only person I'm attacking then there's no "threat" to the rest of the group, eliminating any desire to use tactical movement and strategy.
Would it better suited to have one powerful monster attacking him while less powerful ones threatened the rest?
I think I just answered my own question.....
It sounds like you are missing some Lurkers and Artillery (and maybe Controller) monsters.
Lurkers (your best friend in this situation, though don't overdo it every encounter; just a once in a while thing). These are the creatures that come out of the shadows and get the PC who is "in the back" trying to drag him off and digest him slowly in a vat of acidic saliva.....
Artillery, they should be hanging back around cover and away from the tank (so they aren't really affected as much by his mark) and therefore free to fire around as they want -- maybe they'll focus on the weaker looking PCs in the back, or the PC who is dealing the most damage to his friends, etc.
(multiple artillery are just deadly)
Controllers, can put up walls or things to not allow that tank to move around as much, or to keep the tanks allies from helping the tank (thus the tank will start to feel more nervous and not run off ahead as much)
For your brutes and soldiers, once in a while just ignore the mark and take the penalty if the monster thinks he can take whatever the penalty is -and- they are getting hit on a lot by the other PCs (I mean, at that point, wouldn't you ignore the intimidating guy in front of you to try and smack at the guy who is backstabbing you, repeatedly, for a lot of pain?)
Neonchameleon
Legend
To me this sounds like an unerrata'd battlerager fighter. Get the errata and apply it - they made the class too strong in the book.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
First up, it sounds like he's probably errata'd his fighter himself. Here's how it should work:
1. Whenever he hits a foe with a non-invigorating power OR misses a foe with an invigorating power, he gains his con mod in temporary hitpoints.
2. Whenever he hits a foe with an invigorating power, he gains twice his con mod in temporary hitpoints.
3. Temporary hitpoints NEVER STACK.
That's all pretty easy, and chances are your fighter is playing by the rules. I mostly put this here to help with your confusion.
Next up - the challenge in playing a fighter is doing the best job at forcing monsters to attack you that you can. If the DM automatically has every monster run straight up to the fighter and start swinging, the fighter is simply not going to be challenged, and the rest of the party are not going to be threatened. Additionally, all of the fighter's defender class abilities mean diddly and squat: they may as well not have them.
Monsters should seek out squishy looking targets. If they find they're having a hard time hitting someone, they should choose a different target. If they find their attacks are having no effect, again: different target.
Combats should consist of multiple foes. Even in an encounter with a solo, the solo should be supported by some form of ally (traps, terrain or actual monsters). Fighters have a hard time maintaining marks/control on multiple opponents.
Combats should not generally consist of homogenous foes. You should have a mix of the different monster types. The fighter will typically have a hard time locking down artillery, controllers, lurkers and skirmishers and will have to pick and choose targets.
1. Whenever he hits a foe with a non-invigorating power OR misses a foe with an invigorating power, he gains his con mod in temporary hitpoints.
2. Whenever he hits a foe with an invigorating power, he gains twice his con mod in temporary hitpoints.
3. Temporary hitpoints NEVER STACK.
That's all pretty easy, and chances are your fighter is playing by the rules. I mostly put this here to help with your confusion.
Next up - the challenge in playing a fighter is doing the best job at forcing monsters to attack you that you can. If the DM automatically has every monster run straight up to the fighter and start swinging, the fighter is simply not going to be challenged, and the rest of the party are not going to be threatened. Additionally, all of the fighter's defender class abilities mean diddly and squat: they may as well not have them.
Monsters should seek out squishy looking targets. If they find they're having a hard time hitting someone, they should choose a different target. If they find their attacks are having no effect, again: different target.
Combats should consist of multiple foes. Even in an encounter with a solo, the solo should be supported by some form of ally (traps, terrain or actual monsters). Fighters have a hard time maintaining marks/control on multiple opponents.
Combats should not generally consist of homogenous foes. You should have a mix of the different monster types. The fighter will typically have a hard time locking down artillery, controllers, lurkers and skirmishers and will have to pick and choose targets.
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Also, to add a few more things you can try:
1) Add in a couple of bad guys with a special attack - the defender in my group got knocked prone by either wolves (level 1) or goblin sentries (level 2 warrior) so often that it has become a running joke in game. Now, it's almost a victory when he doesn't get knocked prone in an encounter. Similarly, we're almost to where we're wrapping up the goblin portion of the campaign and I have some goblin crazies ready to go - they're level 2 minions and if they HIT you, they die. However, they leave you immobilized until the end of their next turn. Combine that with some regular goblins holding their action until after the crazies and you have a bunch of gobbos with combat advantage on the immobilized dwarf.
2) use traps or terrain to divide the party. Have some artillery located in some protected terrain with a clear line of fire, or have a cage drop down on the middle of the party, which would separate the dwarf from the rest of the party, or have a pit open up beneath them after one person crosses it. Nothing too bad, but it can separate the party for a round or two.
1) Add in a couple of bad guys with a special attack - the defender in my group got knocked prone by either wolves (level 1) or goblin sentries (level 2 warrior) so often that it has become a running joke in game. Now, it's almost a victory when he doesn't get knocked prone in an encounter. Similarly, we're almost to where we're wrapping up the goblin portion of the campaign and I have some goblin crazies ready to go - they're level 2 minions and if they HIT you, they die. However, they leave you immobilized until the end of their next turn. Combine that with some regular goblins holding their action until after the crazies and you have a bunch of gobbos with combat advantage on the immobilized dwarf.
2) use traps or terrain to divide the party. Have some artillery located in some protected terrain with a clear line of fire, or have a cage drop down on the middle of the party, which would separate the dwarf from the rest of the party, or have a pit open up beneath them after one person crosses it. Nothing too bad, but it can separate the party for a round or two.
