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Nostalgiathon!

I remember growing up when every role playing game was understood to be a puzzle. When modules where written with the understanding that they were mysteries to be explored. When settings were simply modules on a larger scope where cultures and landscapes would shape a module's placement within so it was perhaps no longer temperate medieval European plains, but equatorial Aztecan jungles. I remember when converting adventure modules was more than changing statblocks to one's rule set, but changing out monsters, traps, and even major NPCs. I remember when DMs were pressed to imagine how a Slavers module could be converted for the Scottish highlands or some gnomish caverns of marble or basalt. I remember when combats themselves were not about combating the DM, but deciphering monsters weaknesses and exploiting them, so the next time one faced them players would be building upon effective past strategies and tactics. I remember when magical meant attempting to figure out how magic worked as a player, testing potions, inspecting objects with magical auras, and discovering the underpinnings of different magics in the world. I remember when short descriptions of people, places and items printed in D&D rulebooks or modules grabbed readers interests as they understood there were rationales and connections for every element described. I remember when there was an allure to the game as every session revealed many new elements, while many more were only hinted at with their fullness only waiting behind the screen to be discovered. I remember when the game was about the eureka experience of learning how everything fit together into an all encompassing scheme of the multiverse, always just beyond one's sight at even the highest levels. I remember when when the game world itself had meaning and was infused with learning as each piece of its configuration bespoke of greater and more revelatory discoveries awaited around every corner. I remember when the dice were did not resolve conflicts, but expressed progressions built into the game itself. I remember when players choices mattered whether or not the players wanted them to or not. I remember when discussion in front of a NPC who shared the common tongue understood and remembered what the players said - regardless of whether the players spoke in first person or third. I remember when metagaming meant sharing information with another player whose character was not near enough yours to hear it. Or when a player whose character was gagged gave advice on what to do next. I remember when the rules were not rules, but guidelines for building the DM's code for the puzzle before the game. I remember when every DM or referee was also a game designer by default as the game rules themselves were the magical code ever sought to be uncovered by the players. I remember when class levels meant the player his or her self had to learn and grow by puzzling out how to reach such heights. I remember when everything in the world was a resource, when it all had value, and how that value changed depending on one's class-based point of view and one's prioritized objectives. I remember language was the game, how it increased our vocabulary, and how we increased the game by increasing our own vocabularies and ideas. I remember when our emotions swelled because we were swept up in our successes and failures rather than our choosing to care or not. I remember when the game was a cooperative puzzle game, hidden behind a screen, and refereed by another person as fairly as they could.
 
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I do think I miss the days when I was even younger than I am now, playing D&D in AOL instant message chat rooms using the dice generator built into the chat. But honestly, the vast majority of the time I would grow swiftly disinterested in the games, for one reason or another. But I did enjoy that group of online buddies.
 

Nostalgia is some poor 44 year old bastard in an f-body Camaro with a beer gut and thinning pate blasting Winger with the windows rolled down as he drives to the store for a loaf of bread and a gallon of skim milk.

Whew! Thank God I drive a Honda Accord, or I'd think you're talking about me!

(I'd also be blasting Europe instead of Winger.)
 
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Well, a little trip down memory lane for me.

I have very fond memories of Fads, a game shop in London, Ontario. It was, as far as I know, the first gaming devoted game shop. They even had this huge honking dragon mini that came in seven pieces. I can't for the life of me, remember what it was called, but you could bludgeon someone to death with this hunk of lead. Probably poisoned me just looking at it.

Heck, even back in, oh gosh, it must have been about 1982 or 3, they had computers set up in their shop to show off the latest video games - Temple of Apshai, Seven Cities of Gold, that sort of thing. Blew my mind.

Shop closed up years ago, about the time of the first bubble burst in gaming, in the early 80's.

AFAIK, there's still a couple of FLGS's in London, one is the Silver Slug (IIRC). Seems there's always been a couple in London, and that has never really changed.
 

"Let's face it" is a bit of a tip off. As is the rest of the way you present the position. If you make a statement about something, and need convincing to believe otherwise, than you are putting forth that you believe the former as fact.

I'm feeling nostalgia for Mark CMG trying to, once again, push me into a position that I don't really feel all that strongly about through antagonism. Seriously though, if you're looking for "tip offs" then you're approaching posts in the argumentative way that I mentioned in the very first post. Mark, everything doesn't have to be a debate or argument - what about conversation?

Does Gencon attendance up to 36K from 30K last year seem like a sign of increase in dedicated fandom? Does two lead companies splitting the largest share of the RPG market and both saying sales are better than ever seem like a sign of increased fandom? Does rising usage on the Internet's RPG websites show an increase in RPG fandom?

I hope you're right!

I would think that even without hard numbers you'd have to assume an increase and need convincing the other way around, if anything. It just seems like an unnecessary assertion at the top of the thread and even odder that you want to make the assertion and then try to close off any discussion regarding it.

What is "odd" about it? It is only "odd" if you think I have some hidden agenda, like trying to discredit RPGs and/or crap in your corn chip bowl. Relax, I come in peace.

I'm not "closing off any discussion," I just didn't intend for the thread to about that. Feel free to start a new thread about the changing popularity of RPGs and I'll gladly participate.

Back to the Nostalgiathon...


Nostalgia is crap.

Thanks for stopping by. I think you have an awfully negative perspective on "nostalgia." I mean, I get not liking when someone is trying to live in the past; I too find mullet-wearing Camaro-drivers a bit off-putting (if amusing). But nostalgia is not that far removed from Romanticism, which is key to much of fantasy, especially Tolkien. I take it you don't like Tolkien all that much? His entire work is dripping with nostalgia, albeit in its more literary Romantic form. It is a paen to yesteryear, to a long lost Golden Age. In truth, it is double-layered - the work itself (LotR) is a lost age in which the characters look back on a lost age (the First Age depicted in The Silmarillion).

But I also hear you implying that the RPG experience can be fresh and not harkening back to 12-year old D&D. But what I'm talking about, mainly, is what we feel has been lost and left behind. Like, as I said, the print version of Dragon (especially the ads in the back!). Or a wider proliferation of game stores. Or even one's personal experience of first discovery. Etc.

They even had this huge honking dragon mini that came in seven pieces. I can't for the life of me, remember what it was called, but you could bludgeon someone to death with this hunk of lead. Probably poisoned me just looking at it.

You don't mean Ral Partha's Imperial Dragon, do you?

rpimpdragonclose2.jpg



It isn't quite "honking huge" but is pretty big, maybe eight or nine inches from tongue to tail tip (I have it, but it is not assembled and not with me right now, so I can't remember for sure).

Shop closed up years ago, about the time of the first bubble burst in gaming, in the early 80's.

If I remember correctly, D&D became popular in the late 70s, super popular in the early 80s and maybe peaked in the Dragonlance era of 1983-85. Then the first bubble burst more in the mid-80s, with the Satanic scares, and in terms of in-house drama, Gygax leaving TSR and the rise of Lorraine Williams. But maybe the bubble bursting was a few years earlier, as you say?
 

Thanks for stopping by. I think you have an awfully negative perspective on "nostalgia." I mean, I get not liking when someone is trying to live in the past; I too find mullet-wearing Camaro-drivers a bit off-putting (if amusing). But nostalgia is not that far removed from Romanticism, which is key to much of fantasy, especially Tolkien. I take it you don't like Tolkien all that much?


Hey awesome, you're a mind reader?
 

Mercurious said:
You don't mean Ral Partha's Imperial Dragon, do you?

Dat's der bunny.

As far as it being freaking huge, dude, I was like 10 or 11 years old. Before that, about the largest "miniature" I'd seen was my plastic army men. In my mind, that thing was the size of my head. The joys of nostalgia glasses and all that.

:D
 

I'm feeling nostalgia for Mark CMG trying to, once again, push me into a position that I don't really feel all that strongly about through antagonism. Seriously though, if you're looking for "tip offs" then you're approaching posts in the argumentative way that I mentioned in the very first post. Mark, everything doesn't have to be a debate or argument - what about conversation?


Easy there, Tiger. You made the original statement. I suppose you must have realized it would raise eyebrows by the way you couched it. BTW, someone doesn't need to look for "tipoffs" and certainly when you open with "Let's face it (. . .)," it's going to be seen as a red flag by anyone who reads the statement that follows. It's like someone beginning by saying "Let's be honest (. . .)" or "As we all know (. . .)" or some other phrase meant to strengthen the statement that follows with universality or truth.

But on to the conversation . . .


I hope you're right!


It's not about you or me. We can both hope the indicators are right, together.


What is "odd" about it? It is only "odd" if you think I have some hidden agenda, like trying to discredit RPGs and/or crap in your corn chip bowl. Relax, I come in peace.


It's odd because it runs counter to the indicators. Here's another. Most of the gamers I know over thirty have children and most of them become gamers when they reach a certain age (sometimes a handful of years or more depending on the parents). As to any agenda you might have, hidden or otherwise, it's also possible you just do these things unintentionally, accidentally, and whatnot. It does seem to happen fairly often but I don't think we need to chalk it up to some master plan. It would probably be better thought out and executed if it was an actual agenda.

It's also odd to request conversation, then call my nostalgic memory "crap", then claim to "come in peace." It doesn't quite line up.

No one is asking you to explain why you needed to add the first part of your post and then limit the thread to the other part. I simply mentioned it (" :D I often get a kick of the premises of your threads which seem to run counter to actual fact. They're sometimes very interesting threads, like this one, that begin with odd assumptions shored up by some sort of caveat regarding how it is, in your mind, an inarguable fact. It brightens my day. Thanks. :D ") and then I moved on to waxing nostalgic. We could have left it at that and we could just leave it at this. It was up to you before and is again. I've asked no question to "push" you into any position or compel you. I've certainly presented some facts for you to think over regarding your stance that the hobby is dying or greying or whatever you thinnk it is, but you can ignore those too. Personally, I'm optimistic about the future of tabletop hobby gaming. I enjoy my memories of times past but I don't live there anymore. Some thing from then are just as enjoyable today as they were then too.


I'm not "closing off any discussion," I just didn't intend for the thread to about that. Feel free to start a new thread about the changing popularity of RPGs and I'll gladly participate.


Well, it seems you're done discussing snacks from the old days. That's for sure. Did you want to discuss how you used to be able to just sign out space at some rec centers in the Seventies rather than pay huge fees? That's kinda groggy for you if I shake my head while saying it, right? How about the basketball court sized game of the wargame Jutland I mentioned? I don't see a lot of that anymore.
 

This weekend coming up will be kind of nostalgic for me. Friday night I'm running my campaign, Saturday evening its character creation for a new campaign over at a friends house and all day Sunday is hang out and paint with some peeps at the FLGS.

20 years ago this would have been just another typical weekend. Now I actually appreciate having an entire weekend to do this stuff.
 

Into the Woods

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