D&D 5E (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

You dont have disadvantage to hit in 5.5. If theyre paralyzed theyre not threatening. And that is the disadvantage to hit.

I think it was the same in 5.0.
Nevermind! I found it. It's not because they're not threatening. It's because ranged attacks says

"When you make a ranged attack roll with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have Disadvantage on the roll if you are within 5 feet of an enemy who can see you and doesn’t have the Incapacitated condition."

And Paralyzed says

"You have the Incapacitated condition."

See, that was helpful. You didn't give me the information, but you motivated me to look it up.
 

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Nevermind! I found it. It's not because they're not threatening. It's because ranged attacks says

"When you make a ranged attack roll with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have Disadvantage on the roll if you are within 5 feet of an enemy who can see you and doesn’t have the Incapacitated condition."

And Paralyzed says

"You have the Incapacitated condition."

See, that was helpful. You didn't give me the information, but you motivated me to look it up.

Happy t oblige.

Iirc 5.0 was the same. This is why I like enchanters at lvl 10+ in 5.0 and the new twin spell.

Cheap/free twin effects. Started doing it in BG3. Works great in tabletop as well.

Last game I had 4/5 pc being able to cast command, hold person and 3/5 hold monster.

And soelkss that target intelligence. Theres only 9 of them. Sitting behind the DM screen the monsters are stupidly vulnerable to them.

I like the Enchanter lvl 2 ability as well. ECMo3 likes it more than me he's more tactical than I am. I'm maybe more strategic hard to say.
 

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Paralyzed gives you incapacitated condition.

Page 26 if someone's incapacitated.....
See post above!
Theres a reason ECMO3 and myself are fans of hex on EKs and other builds.
Which has nothing to do with Paralyzed. It's just an additional damage rider for which you could as well use Hunter's Mark which deals Force damage which is less resisted than Necrotic damage.
Ive seen alert feat bump spellcasters up initiative they paralyze7 opponents. Chromatic Orbs get 4 crits and then hex+Scorching Ray (lvl4) used.
And how exactly does that work? The spellcaster bumps their initiative with Alert. If they are a War Magic Wizard or Chronurgy Wizard, you can also add their Intelligence modifier to the Initiative roll. And then they paralyze the target. So far I'm with you. And then Chromatic Orb gets 4 crits? How 4 crits? You mean it hits the first target and then bounces three times and all 4 targets are within 5 feet of the caster? Thus, upcast to 3rd level? And how does the spellcaster cast two leveled spells with a spell slot on the same turn? Or are these two different spellcasters? And then somebody casts Hex and Scorching Ray? Also both as leveled spells with spell slot or how exactly?
 

Happy t oblige.

Iirc 5.0 was the same. This is why I like enchanters at lvl 10+ in 5.0 and the new twin spell.

Cheap/free twin effects. Started doing it in BG3. Works great in tabletop as well.

Last game I had 4/5 pc being able to cast command, hold person and 3/5 hold monster.

And soelkss that target intelligence. Theres only 9 of them. Sitting behind the DM screen the monsters are stupidly vulnerable to them.

I like the Enchanter lvl 2 ability as well. ECMo3 likes it more than me he's more tactical than I am. I'm maybe more strategic hard to say.
If you say so! You see, if I see a bunch of monsters in a group like that and I have access to level 5 spell slots, I cast Synaptic Static. Deals the same damage as a Fireball, but against an Intelligence save and all those who failed have to subtract 1d6 from their attack rolls. Much better to hit 9 targets with one spell slots rather than paralyzing 1-2 of them with the same spell slot. Encounters like that aren't worth burning through more spell slots.
 
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See post above!

Which has nothing to do with Paralyzed. It's just an additional damage rider for which you could as well use Hunter's Mark which deals Force damage which is less resisted than Necrotic damage.

And how exactly does that work? The spellcaster bumps their initiative with Alert. If they are a War Magic Wizard or Chronurgy Wizard, you can also add their Intelligence modifier to the Initiative roll. And then they paralyze the target. So far I'm with you. And then Chromatic Orb gets 4 crits? How 4 crits? You mean it hits the first target and then bounces three times and all 4 targets are within 5 feet of the caster? Thus, upcast to 3rd level? And how does the spellcaster cast two leveled spells with a spell slot on the same turn? Or are these two different spellcasters? And then somebody casts Hex and Scorching Ray? Also both as leveled spells with spell slot or how exactly?

Someone else had alert feat. 2 PCs had it +4 initiativeplus you can trade places. 4/5 could cast hold person (bard, cleric, warlock, sorcerer w/twin spell). Vs assassins and bhaalists.

Two casters went first. Level 5 hold person from warlock. Level 4 hold person from bard.

Two paralyzed opponents were adjacent. Two aut crits from chromatic orb. With advantage Two more were rolled.

The light cleric was a light cleric with scorching ray and hex.

Hex applies to spell attacks. Hunters mark does not.

They're using BG3 tactics (manipulate initiative, win, paralyze).

Chromatic Orb and Sorcerous burst have interesting interactions with crits. SB can also be quickened.

Giants also don't gave good wisdom saves generally. Twinned hold monster.......
 


Someone else had alert feat. 2 PCs had it +4 initiativeplus you can trade places. 4/5 could cast hold person (bard, cleric, warlock, sorcerer w/twin spell). Vs assassins and bhaalists.

Two casters went first. Level 5 hold person from warlock. Level 4 hold person from bard.

Two paralyzed opponents were adjacent. Two aut crits from chromatic orb. With advantage Two more were rolled.

The light cleric was a light cleric with scorching ray and hex.
That's a lot of spell slots burned for that encounter. And are you saying the Sorcerer cast Chromatic Orb with Twin Spell? And the Cleric cast Scorching Ray and Hex on the same turn? I assume he had the free cast from Fey-Touched, right?

Hex applies to spell attacks. Hunters mark does not.
Hunter's Mark says "Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll."

Spell Attacks like Scorching Ray have an attack roll.
They're using BG3 tactics (manipulate initiative, win, paralyze).

Chromatic Orb and Sorcerous burst have interesting interactions with crits. SB can also be quickened.
It's less the crits themselves. It's whether you roll the same number on the damage roll twice (Chromatic Orb) or whether you roll an 8 (Sorcerous Burst), but of course, the chances for that to happen go up on a crit.
Giants also don't gave good wisdom saves generally. Twinned hold monster.......
Depends on the Giants. Cloud Giants have +7 to Wisdom Saves, Storm Giants +10. The other Giants not so much.
 

That's a lot of spell slots burned for that encounter. And are you saying the Sorcerer cast Chromatic Orb with Twin Spell? And the Cleric cast Scorching Ray and Hex on the same turn? I assume he had the free cast from Fey-Touched, right?

Hunter's Mark says "Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll."

Spell Attacks like Scorching Ray have an attack roll.

Derp they changed hunters mark from 5.0.

Hex is easier to get though as you can pick it up via an origin feat or Fae Touched feat.

That's how sone of them had it.

They were lvl 10 iirc. They got through 6 orv7 encounters that long rest. At12 they made it to 10.

Warlocks get spells back short rest. Prayer of healing grants a short rest. Prayer of healing can be used in combat via divine intervention.

Ive seen boss fights lvl 10+ go monk nova, fighter action surge, warlock nova.

Round two. Warlock nova, monk nova, cleric casts Prayer of healing fighter action surges again.........

Earlier you asked what makes split enchantment so good.

Its all those twinned in effect enchantment spells and a warlock. You dont run out of spells. 5.5 sorcerers+twin spell sonething similar. Lvl 2 commands 2 targets, lvl 2 hold person two targets etc up to hold monster at 5th.

And a warlock.

Thats how they got through so many encounters. It took 3 sessions at 10, 2 sessions for 6.
 

Derp they changed hunters mark from 5.0.

Hex is easier to get though as you can pick it up via an origin feat or Fae Touched feat.
You can't get Hex via an Origin feat, because it's only on the Warlock spell list and there is no Magic Initiate (Warlock) Origin feat, and Fey-Touched also gives you access to Hunter's Mark because Fey-Touched gives access to Enchantment and Divination spells.
That's how sone of them had it.

They were lvl 10 iirc. They got through 6 orv7 encounters that long rest. At12 they made it to 10.

Warlocks get spells back short rest. Prayer of healing grants a short rest. Prayer of healing can be used in combat via divine intervention.
Yeah, you can do that! I wouldn't, because there are better spells, like Hallow, to use this on, and Hallow would have probably also resulted in a default kill without anybody needing to use a spell slot. But you can use it on Prayer of Healing that if it's situationally beneficial. And if for nothing else, it sounds like they had fun and that's what matters.

But didn't you say they fought Giants with low Wisdom saves? At that level I would expect Storm Giants and they have good Wisdom saves.
Ive seen boss fights lvl 10+ go monk nova, fighter action surge, warlock nova.

Round two. Warlock nova, monk nova, cleric casts Prayer of healing fighter action surges again.........
Sounds pretty wasteful to me, given the encounter, but it sounds like you had fun.

But how exactly does a Monk go nova? Fighters with Action Surge, I get. Warlocks casting 5th level spells, I get. But Monks? You mean Flurry of Blows? That's a normal round for a Monk. Or what do you mean?
Earlier you asked what makes split enchantment so good.

Its all those twinned in effect enchantment spells and a warlock. You dont run out of spells. 5.5 sorcerers+twin spell sonething similar. Lvl 2 commands 2 targets, lvl 2 hold person two targets etc up to hold monster at 5th.
Yeah, but you still used way more spell slots on that encounter than was necessary and therefore, I don't think it was good at all. You effectively shot at mosquitos with a bazooka. You could have ended the encounter just as much with one cast of an AoE-spell like Synaptic Static before wiping up the rest with cantrips instead of having multiple people cast 1-2 spells on that type of encounter. Or you could have had the Cleric use Divine Intervention on Hallow. But I'm not even sure I would use anything but cantrips on that one and hold my spell slots for when I actually need them. I mean, if they were so weak that they failed every Wisdom save against those spells, you wouldn't have had issues with them anyway.

Besides, if you are saying that every Sorcerer can do the same thing as the Enchanter with Twin Spell for 1 Sorcery Point, which is true and I didn't even think about that before, and can add Heightened Spell on top of that with Sorcery Incarnate, that's an argument against the Enchanter being good, at least what their level 10 feature concerns. Ok, yeah, it's fair to say that as Wizards, they still have access to Ritual Casting and other stuff that Sorcerers don't get and Wizards have the better spell list, but still, any Sorcerer can Twin Spells already at level 2. Sure, it costs them Sorcery Points, but by level 10, they have 10 of those and once per Long Rest, they get half of them back on a Short Rest. And, actually, Sorcerer could do that all along, now that I think about it. In fact, Twin Spell got nerfed with 5.5e.

Sorry to say this, but the more y'all tell me, the less I think y'all have a point concerning the Enchanter. But I'm also starting to get why y'all think that it's so good. You completely overextend yourselves on easy encounters and then rave about the fact that Split Enchantment saved you spell slots when with a more optimized approach, you wouldn't have used those spell slots in the first place. But for a playstyle that always throws the kitchen sink at everything, no matter what, it makes complete sense. And I understand why it's fun to play like that.

But it's a completely different approach to the game than how I am playing. The encounters I was talking about are difficult encounters and you don't always get a short, uninterrupted rest and eventually, the Cleric runs out of spell slots for Prayer of Healing. And the encounters are of the kind that if you don't play optimally, you will die. Maybe not in this encounter, but potentially in the next or the one after that. For example, if you had sent that group of 6th level heroes at an Aboleth at the end of an adventuring day with 4-6 previous encounters, that would have been an entirely different story.
And a warlock.

Thats how they got through so many encounters. It took 3 sessions at 10, 2 sessions for 6.
Yeah, getting at least 6-8 encounters between long rests is fairly normal, especially if you have a party with predominantly Monks, Fighters, and Warlocks who get their resources back on a short rest and only a few Clerics, Sorcerers, or Wizards who only get them back on a long rest.
 
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You can't get Hex via an Origin feat, because it's only on the Warlock spell list and there is no Magic Initiate (Warlock) Origin feat, and Fey-Touched also gives you access to Hunter's Mark because Fey-Touched gives access to Enchantment and Divination spells.

Yeah, you can do that! I wouldn't, because there are better spells, like Hallow, to use this on, and Hallow would have probably also resulted in a default kill without anybody needing to use a spell slot. But you can use it on Prayer of Healing that if it's situationally beneficial. And if for nothing else, it sounds like they had fun and that's what matters.

But didn't you say they fought Giants with low Wisdom saves? At that level I would expect Storm Giants and they have good Wisdom saves.

Sounds pretty wasteful to me, given the encounter, but it sounds like you had fun.

But how exactly does a Monk go nova? Fighters with Action Surge, I get. Warlocks casting 5th level spells, I get. But Monks? You mean Flurry of Blows? That's a normal round for a Monk. Or what do you mean?

Yeah, but you still used way more spell slots on that encounter than was necessary and therefore, I don't think it was good at all. You effectively shot at mosquitos with a bazooka. You could have ended the encounter just as much with one cast of an AoE-spell like Synaptic Static before wiping up the rest with cantrips instead of having multiple people cast 1-2 spells on that type of encounter. Or you could have had the Cleric use Divine Intervention on Hallow. But I'm not even sure I would use anything but cantrips on that one and hold my spell slots for when I actually need them. I mean, if they were so weak that they failed every Wisdom save against those spells, you wouldn't have had issues with them anyway.

Besides, if you are saying that every Sorcerer can do the same thing as the Enchanter with Twin Spell for 1 Sorcery Point, which is true and I didn't even think about that before, and can add Heightened Spell on top of that with Sorcery Incarnate, that's an argument against the Enchanter being good, at least what their level 10 feature concerns. Ok, yeah, it's fair to say that as Wizards, they still have access to Ritual Casting and other stuff that Sorcerers don't get and Wizards have the better spell list, but still, any Sorcerer can Twin Spells already at level 2. Sure, it costs them Sorcery Points, but by level 10, they have 10 of those and once per Long Rest, they get half of them back on a Short Rest. And, actually, Sorcerer could do that all along, now that I think about it. In fact, Twin Spell got nerfed with 5.5e.

Sorry to say this, but the more y'all tell me, the less I think y'all have a point concerning the Enchanter. But I'm also starting to get why y'all think that it's so good. You completely overextend yourselves on easy encounters and then rave about the fact that Split Enchantment saved you spell slots when with a more optimized approach, you wouldn't have used those spell slots in the first place. But for a playstyle that always throws the kitchen sink at everything, no matter what, it makes complete sense.

But the encounters I was talking about are difficult encounters. The ones of the kind that if you don't play optimally, you will die. For example, if you had send that group of 6th level heroes at an Aboleth, that would be an entirely different story.

Yeah, getting at least 6-8 encounters between long rests is fairly normal, especially if you have a party with predominantly Monks, Fighters, and Warlocks who get their resources back on a short rest and only a few Clerics, Sorcerers, or Wizards who only get them back on a long rest.

Theres an origin feat in Lorwyn with hex iirc

We just take hex in 5.0 mode hex vs hunters mark. I'll have to reread.

I've got a custom feat in my game also allowing hex;).

Enchanter been powercrept out i was talking about it vs other 5.0 subclasses.

Im the guy who thinks wizards are a bit meh now except at higher levels.

Power creep on Druids, Clerics, Sorcerers, Warlocks.

Sorcerer with heighten will bea diviners wizard and you take twin spell as well.

Im not a fan of spellcaster damage in 5.5 exception is emanations and paralyzed.

Divine intervention hallow wasnt used as everyone was using different damage types.

They were using synaptic static. Most fights they didnt need the big guns. You really only get 25th, 1 6th, 1 7th at those levels.

Twin spell and split enchantment effectively doubles it (sorta).

Boss fights are CR16+ rank and file "mooks" are CR 3-5 and normals are CR 5-10 at those levels. CR 5 to 10s still have 100-200 hp hence paralysis.

Good saves dont really turn up until CR 15ish. We had a CR 17 turn up at 9th RAW.
 
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