D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[Zardnaar]

I guess you could do that. I don’t really see how it’s any less complex than, like, Graze, or Push, or even Topple.

Am I crazy? Everyone’s acting like weapon masteries introduce a ton of complex decision trees, but… Every mastery does exactly one thing, and it does that one thing every time you hit with it. Is it so hard to remember that whenever you hit with your longsword your target gets disadvantage on its next attack? How is that any harder to learn than which die you’re supposed to roll when you hit?

It's remembering what dice to use and a rider effect. DM also has to remember.

Helps if you're using a VTT or grid.

They're happy to sell you that as well.

It's very obvious if you play other games along the lines of +6 to hit 1d6+3 damage and you don't have to worry about anything else.

I've recently seen a new player not use rage.

It's just one more thing to remember on top of everything else.

As DM I try and help out. Eg a character has knocked sonething prone and you know it's tge last fight. "Are you going to action surge now?". Hint hint.

 

[TiQuinn]

Honestly, I don't understand why it is so hard for people to learn, but for some people it is...

I have a player who, nearly two years later, still thinks it is correct to add your proficiency bonus to weapon damage. We've told him at least a dozen times, worked out his character sheet to say "Attack +8, damage 1d8+5" for example, and he still forgets to add the +5 to damage half the time. He will tell me he does 3 damage, for example... when I know he can't do less than 6.

Same. It’s a mental block for some folks but it’s a piece of cake for others, but here’s the kicker: IMO, grasping the mechanics of the game is not a by product of the game being overly complex. We want to blame the mechanics because that’s the easy answer.

 

[ECMO3]

I’m guessing you don’t play with new players often (which the OP is taking about). IME, new players take forever to learn what spells do and to pick the spell they want to use.

No I do and my limited experience with mastery so far is the opposite. New players learn what their spells do in combat very quickly and based on limited experience so far, much quicker than they learn weapon masteries.

It is not even close really, spells seem to be a lot easier for new players at my table. They are easier than a lot of class and in 2014 subclass features too.

Where spells take forever IME is when creating a character.

 

[cbwjm]

I can understand not wanting to opt out of the weapon mastery rules. If it's listed as part of the class, and you tell player of said class that you don't use part of their class in your games, that's going to disappoint the player.

someone mentioned flash cards, I'd probably use that which lists their weapon, their hit bonus, range, damage, and weapon mastery rule for that weapon. Break somethings down like hit bonus (proficiency bonus, ability mod, misc bonuses) so that they can match things up with things on their character sheet and that should help them learn it. You could probably do some madlibs style cards so that if they get a new weapon you can add in all of the pertinent details on the fly. If they pick up a weapon they didnt choose for weapon mastery and they don'thave time to reset, just let them use the mastery ability, that should smooth that transition out.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Kind of wondering if the 'eight players' thing might be playing a part. That's not a lot of opportunity to work directly with a given player who is having issues.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Maybe if we reskin them all as cantrips they’ll have an easier time learning them

 

[cbwjm]

No I do and my limited experience so far is the opposite. New players learn what their spells do in combat very quickly and based on limited experience so far, much quicker than they learn weapon masteries.

It is not even close really, spells seem to be a lot easier for new players at my table. They are easier than a lot of class and in 2014 subclass features too.

Where spells take forever IME is when creating a character.

I've found some spells that are used often or just straight damage rolls are picked up easily so firebolt, fireball, or sleep are generally pretty simple but detect thoughts might require a read of the description when they go to use it, slowing the game a little. It's not a problem, just something I've noticed for some more complex spells, many never seem to work how players expect.

 

[Zardnaar]

I can understand not wanting to opt out of the weapon mastery rules. If it's listed as part of the class, and you tell player of said class that you don't use part of their class in your games, that's going to disappoint the player.

someone mentioned flash cards, I'd probably use that which lists their weapon, their hit bonus, range, damage, and weapon mastery rule for that weapon. Break somethings down like hit bonus (proficiency bonus, ability mod, misc bonuses) so that they can match things up with things on their character sheet and that should help them learn it. You could probably do some madlibs style cards so that if they get a new weapon you can add in all of the pertinent details on the fly. If they pick up a weapon they didnt choose for weapon mastery and they don'thave time to reset, just let them use the mastery ability, that should smooth that transition out.

I'm using a cheat sheet that breaks down the 5E round structure and basic combat rules.

Some have preconstructed characters with the stuff on the sheet.

Learning what dice to use might take 1-3 sessions.

 

[Zardnaar]

I've found some spells that are used often or just straight damage rolls are picked up easily so firebolt, fireball, or sleep are generally pretty simple but detect thoughts might require a read of the description when they go to use it, slowing the game a little. It's not a problem, just something I've noticed for some more complex spells, many never seem to work how players expect.

This. Ray of frost is better than firebolt Latter is your newbie go to spell imho.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Maybe if we reskin them all as cantrips they’ll have an easier time learning them

Yeah if only they were spells, then no one would mind if they were even more complicated.