D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[TiQuinn]

Generally they don't pick hardcore spelkcasters.

Snart ones who do ask for advice on what's good or figure out it out.

The "don't tell me how to play" types and the ones who think spellcasters make good frontliners (without knowing how to do that) figure ot out, get killed or the game/group falls apart.

The majority of the classes now have some sort of spellcasting capability.

 

[Zardnaar]

The majority of the classes now have some sort of spellcasting capability.

2014 or 24?

I'm aware but there's still options there and level 1 and 2 aren't that complicated.

My 5 newbies in 5E game 2 picked pre constructed, fighter, barbarian and the sorcerer player had played BG3 do wasn't clueless. Also buffed the Dragon Sorcerer a bit closer to 2024 version (chromatic orb and dragons breath for free).

 

[TiQuinn]

2014 or 24?

Both.

 

[Zardnaar]

Both.

Point. You can opt out and there's simple casters as well.

Warlocks an exception.

 

[TiQuinn]

Point. You can opt out and there's simple casters as well.

Warlocks an exception.

The point is they still have spells that add complexity to the game beyond just attacking, so the question is what makes weapon mastery more difficult.

 

[mellored]

I’m not sure why that is the question. Spells were already in the game. Are you suggesting making spells optional?

The question being, do casters take more time than martials.

If casters take more time, then shouldn't you be complaining about them instead?

Saying they already exist doesn't change which one slows the game down more.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

During gameplay, IME Weapon Mastery is way more complicated than spells, for both experienced and new players.

How so?

Spells are more complicated than weapon mastery in terms of character creation and level up, but generally less complicated during play and execution IME.

What is more difficult in using a weapon with a rider than using a cantrip with a rider?

 

[DrJawaPhD]

so the question is what makes weapon mastery more difficult.

Because it's new and change is scary

 

[Charlaquin]

9 times out of 10 it isn't the DM who thinks such things, it is from watching players struggle with understanding how their character's features work--and other players getting frustrated waiting on that player or the DM having to explain something several times.

Frankly, I don't care for Weapon Mastery rules because they are "auto".... things that happen just because... like Push moving a target back up to 10 feet without any consideration other than it being Large or smaller. I understand the removal of a STR save or something was to keep the game moving faster, but I just don't care for such features.

Does the attack roll not constitute “a strength save or something” in your view?

A lot of Cantrips do damage and apply some secondary effect on a hit with a spellcasting attack - Ray of Frost, for example, is functionally just a light crossbow with the Slow mastery unlocked.

 

[Zardnaar]

How so?

What is more difficult in using a weapon woth a rider than using a cantrip with a rider?

Cantrips with rider are opt in.