D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[Clint_L]

Brand new players often need reminding about almost every step. Many don’t know what a hit point is when they sit down at the table. Reminding players that there is both a to hit roll and a damage roll is common. Masteries are simple for experienced players but often involve conceptual frameworks that new players lack.

I had not realized this from my home game where they work as intended and we like them. Because an experienced player understands, for example, how the movement system works and therefore intuits how to use relevant masteries.

 

[Belen]

I hesitate to say this, but there are simpler fantasy games than D&D 5.5.

Sure. It is why I have not moved to 5.5.

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

WotC needs to create and heavily market a new basic D&D game.

 

[ezo]

Ultimately the issue is that complexity which used to be opt-in is now baseline.

You used to be able to opt in to having a harder character by either picking a spellcaster, taking feats, or a taking complex martial subclass. Now things like feats, Weapon masteries, Rogue's Cunning strikes, etc are baseline and add a lot more decision making and things to track where there previously wouldn't be.

Oi... Cunning Strikes effects...

I love how for the Poison effect you just have to have a Poisoner's kit on your person. Forget actually needing proficiency in it or paying for it. I have a drow rogue in my current game and that poisoned condition disadvantage on enemy attacks is HUGE and has saved the PCs a couple time IMO.

And the Withdraw effect should let you move but impose disadvantage on OA made when you do, not negate them entirely, all the time, regardless of how many creatures are around you...

OR it should be you don't provoke OA from the target of your sneak attack, which would make more sense.

But to have to move freely without provoking ANY OA from any creature during your half speed movement?? NO!!! Once again, MOAR POWER!!!

 

[Belen]

Then to be honest they should be taught otherwise. If you're playing a game where you character generates effects, it is your responsibility to know how those effects work and to let the DM know.

In 30 years of D&D, the only time I have seen mass player responsibility has been at ENWorld game days when all the players are also DMs.

If a person is always a player and never a DM, then my stated experience is common no matter how long they have played.

Most players think of the game when playing it and not outside of it.

 

[ezo]

WotC needs to create and heavily market a new basic D&D game.

Basically that is what @DND_Reborn, @Smythe the Bard, and myself are working on. But if WotC made it and did a good job, I'd be all for it!

If a person is always a player and never a DM, then my stated experience is common no matter how long they have played.

Most players think of the game when playing it and not outside of it.

I cannot agree with this as a blanket statement. It is very certainly true for some players (about 50/50 IME), but not nearly all of them or even most IMO.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. It is why I have not moved to 5.5.

I've heard good things about Shadowdark, since it sounds like 5.0 is also more complex than your players prefer.

 

[Belen]

Basically that is what @DND_Reborn, @Smythe the Bard, and myself are working on. But if WotC made it and did a good job, I'd be all for it!


I cannot agree with this as a blanket statement. It is very certainly true for some players (about 50/50 IME), but not nearly all of them or even most IMO.

I said earlier that there is usually 1-2 engaged players at a table.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In 30 years of D&D, the only time I have seen mass player responsibility has been at ENWorld game days when all the players are also DMs.

If a person is always a player and never a DM, then my stated experience is common no matter how long they have played.

Most players think of the game when playing it and not outside of it.

That doesn't mean most players are incapable of learning the rules. That is, IMO and of course allowing for exceptions, on them as players.

 

[jayoungr]

I've heard good things about Shadowdark, since it sounds like 5.0 is also more complex than your players prefer.

A lot of people seem to love it, but the people who do love it seem to be the ones looking to replicate an OSR-style "simple, gritty, and deadly" type game. That may or may not be what the OP is looking for.