D&D General Not Railroad, Not Sandbox ... What else is there?

[gamerprinter]

In my experience there is no such thing as a "railroad game" or "sandbox game". Railroading and sandboxing, when viewed without any negative connotations, are modes of play that a DM can switch between while running the same game. One session might present the players more options while the next session presents them with less, but it was still the same game.

I forgot the name, but there's the original Dragonlance campaign series written by Margaret Weiss, published under D&D 2e, that was based on a novel and when a certain major character dies in the novel, at that place in the adventure the character dies, and the player has no choice in the matter - that is the only true railroad adventure, I actually know of, though never played it myself.

 

[gamerprinter]

When I say, I cannot write a story for and Sandbox, since it's the players that determine the story - I'm not saying it's impossible for anyone to write a story for it, rather, I'm incapable of doing that, so I don't. I'm not making any judgements of what or how anybody else can do something it - I'm not somebody else, and it's me, that cannot do that. That's all I'm saying. I have no concerns for anyone else's capability or lack thereof. It's not an issue with me.

 

[S'mon]

When I say, I cannot write a story for and Sandbox

I can't write a story for a sandbox either, and I'm usually a sandbox GM!

 

[gamerprinter]

I can't write a story for a sandbox either, and I'm usually a sandbox GM!

Yes, but my point is I'm an author/publisher, if I cannot write material for a sandbox to publish, how in the hell can I support it - other than making an immersive, nuanced setting, but I do that anyway, always. So as a publisher, I cannot do anything for it - and my only point.

 

[gamerprinter]

You can only tell a story about your trip to Greece after the trip is concluded. You can plan an itinerary with some goal in mind like visiting all the sites of the Persian Wars but there is no story until you have actually done the trip.

It the same way with a sandbox campaign in a fantasy setting, or a science fiction setting despite the fantastic nature of the setting.

In both the outcome can't be predicted, and it only be experienced and after it over a story can be told.

And I fully understand and agree with that. But only from my point of view, as an author/publisher, how do I create for that? As a GM I fully understand, but if I'm creating content for somebody else's Sandbox - is it even possible for me to support that (as a publisher). That's my only question, and the only one I've presented in this entire thread. It was never about Sandbox itself, rather how I can do anything for it, or not...

 

[jmartkdr2]

And I fully understand and agree with that. But only from my point of view, as an author/publisher, how do I create for that? As a GM I fully understand, but if I'm creating content for somebody else's Sandbox - is it even possible for me to support that (as a publisher). That's my only question, and the only one I've presented in this entire thread. It was never about Sandbox itself, rather how I can do anything for it, or not...

The only answer I've seen is: you create a bunch of seeds and put them on a map, with suggestions for how to use them.

I don't know if that's a good business model - that is, I don't know if such a book will sell in today's market - but it used to be pretty common.

 

[gamerprinter]

The only answer I've seen is: you create a bunch of seeds and put them on a map, with suggestions for how to use them.

I don't know if that's a good business model - that is, I don't know if such a book will sell in today's market - but it used to be pretty common.

Edit: I misunderstood your post - now I get it. Okay, seems simple enough, but I like to make more than just maps - maps are certainly a major part. Somehow I'd feel my product is naked as just a map.

 

[jgsugden]

I forgot the name, but there's the original Dragonlance campaign series written by Margaret Weiss, published under D&D 2e, that was based on a novel and when a certain major character dies in the novel, at that place in the adventure the character dies, and the player has no choice in the matter - that is the only true railroad adventure, I actually know of, though never played it myself.

Of course, the start of VECNA LIVES! is infamous for just abusing the PCs in a similar manner.

 

[jgsugden]

The only answer I've seen is: you create a bunch of seeds and put them on a map, with suggestions for how to use them.

I don't know if that's a good business model - that is, I don't know if such a book will sell in today's market - but it used to be pretty common.

Homebrew sandbox is much more practical, but the commercially available sandbox, to me, would be:

1.) Campaign Setting. You give the background so that there is a fleshed out environment in which to 'play in the sand'.
2.) Adventures and Delves. When PCs decide to do something, you need a library of things at the beck and call to start plugging them into. They'd need to be plug and play, and the DM would need to adapt them to their setting (and provide the ties that bring them together as a cohesive part of the environment), but there are a lot of options in the DM's Guild, as well as in older materials.

If I were going to make a sandbox product for a Kickstarter, it would be:

1.) Player Lore Book (no crunch, all background info)
2.) Player Options Book (setting specific options like subclasses, heritages, backgrounds, spells, magic items)
3.) DM Lore Book (the things PCs should not know)
4.) DM Rules/Setting Rules Book (setting specific rules, especially for mechanics unique to the setting (like Dark Sun's defiling))
5.) Adventure Books for a few dozen locations and scenarios (modules and delves)
6.) A Journal Book that talks about how the setting would advance over time if the PCs do nothing, and how some of their actions might change the stories as they evolve.

 

[gamerprinter]

Edit: Nothing to see here, move along.... (if I could delete, I would).