number of attacks when wildshaped

[Dwarmaj]

Also note:

Creatures that only have one attack (dogs, wolves...) get 1.5x their strength bonus. Similar to using a two-handed weapon.

Creatures using a secondary attack only use .5x their strength bonus. Similar to using an off-hand two-weapon attack.

 

[Belbarrus]

Hmmm, no iteratives with natural weaponry, aye? So, that means that a PC character (presumably a Dwarf, Elf, Human, etc) gets only 1 attack when they fight unarmed. For example, a 20th level Human Fighter, without weapons or any other specials feats, gets to *punch* once for 1d3 +Str damage? Put on a spiked gauntlet and now the character is "armed" and gets full iterative attacks. :?

Do creatures with natural weapon still get their Iterative BAB bonuses on Grapple checks?

Belbarrus

 

[Belbarrus]

Hmmm, no iteratives with natural weaponry, aye? So, that means that a PC character (presumably a Dwarf, Elf, Human, etc) gets only 1 attack when they fight unarmed. For example, a 20th level Human Fighter, without weapons or any other specials feats, gets to *punch* once for 1d3 +Str damage? Put on a spiked gauntlet and now the character is "armed" and gets full iterative attacks. :?

Do creatures with natural weapon still get their Iterative BAB bonuses on Grapple checks?

Belbarrus

 

[reapersaurus]

It may seem silly, but it's the rules...

Check out the FAQ under Combat Statistics. It gives examples and explanation as to why natural weapons don't get iterative attacks.

You're not understanding my point.

Natural attacks are claw/claw/bite, etc.
An unarmed attack is not a "natural attack".
If a character (not an animal, as the FAQ is referring to - for that matter, all official examples (AFAIK) have not included a PC with levels in monster form) has extra attacks, those are not natural attacks.
The natural attacks are clearly the initial claw/claw/bite attacks.

If you want to say that a PC in a form that has a claw attack can not use the claw without it being a "natural attack", than I could see how someone could limit it that way (bad idea, IMO, but could...) However, if the PC wants to do an unarmed attack (not a claw attack) as his iterative attack, than I know of no FAQ or rule that addresses it.

 

[Dwarmaj]

I couldn't find anything that explicitly spells it out, but from the SRD:

Attack
This line shows the single attack the creature makes with an attack action. In most cases, this is also the attack the creature uses when making an attack of opportunity as well. The attack line provides the weapon used (natural or manufactured), attack bonus, and form of attack (melee or ranged). The attack bonus given includes modifications for size and Strength (for melee attacks) or Dexterity (for ranged attacks). A creature with the Weapon Finesse feat can use its Dexterity modifier on melee attacks. If the creature uses natural attacks, the natural weapon given here is the creature’s primary natural weapon. If the creature has several different weapons at its disposal, the alternatives are shown, with each different attack separated by the word “or.” A creature can use one of its secondary natural weapons when making an attack action, but if it does it takes an attack penalty, as noted in the Full Attack section below. The damage that each attack deals is noted parenthetically. Damage from an attack is always at least 1 point, even if a subtraction from a die roll reduces the result to 0 or lower.

Full Attack
This line shows all the physical attacks the creature makes when it uses a full-round action to make a full attack. It gives the number of attacks along with the weapon, attack bonus, and form of attack (melee or ranged). The first entry is for the creature’s primary weapon, with an attack bonus including modifications for size and Strength (for melee attacks) or Dexterity (for ranged attacks). A creature with the Weapon Finesse feat can use its Dexterity modifier on melee attacks. The remaining weapons are secondary, and attacks with them are made with a –5 penalty to the attack roll, no matter how many there are. Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a –2 penalty on secondary attacks. The damage that each attack deals is noted parenthetically. Damage from an attack is always at least 1 point, even if a subtraction from a die roll reduces the result to 0 or lower.
A creature’s primary attack damage includes its full Strength modifier (1-1/2 times its Strength bonus if the attack is with the creature’s sole natural weapon) and is given first. Secondary attacks add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus and are given second in the parentheses.
If any attacks also have some special effect other than damage, that information is given here.
Unless noted otherwise, creatures using natural weapons deal double damage on critical hits.

Manufactured Weapons: Creatures that use swords, bows, spears, and the like follow the same rules as characters do. The bonus for attacks with two-handed weapons is 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength modifier (if it is a bonus), and is given first. Offhand weapons add only 1/2 the Strength bonus and are given second in the parentheses.

I believe unarmed attacks are treated as if they were Manufactured weapons. That's why humanoids are allowed iterative attacks based on their BAB. If a humanoid was polymorphed into a troll, I believe he'd be able to punch with one hand (full str mod) using his iterative attack and use his remainging claw and bite as a secondary attacks (1/2 str mod applies).

That's the way I play it at least.

 

[reapersaurus]

That's the way I play it at least.

You're more than welcome to play it that way.
However, it's not the "official" way.
There is no "official" way, unfortunately.

 

[jgsugden]

This seems pretty clear to me. Not crystal clear, but clear enough that I am confident in my interpretation.

The alter self spell (which is called by polymorph which is called by wildshape) specifies that you gain the natural weapons of the new form. This means more than just the presence of claws, a tail or teeth. Those things are obviously present when you take the form of the animal. The language granting you natural weapons is there to allow you to gain the ability to use these things to make natural attacks.

So, a druid that takes the form of a brown bear gets to attack as if he was a brown bear, except that he uses his own BAB instead of the bear's BAB. He also gets to apply any other feats, spell effects, etc ... that improve these attacks.

In other words, you get the form's attack routine.

Another thing that supports this idea is the availability of special attacks to the wildshaped druid. It wouldn't make sense for a druid to be able to pounce as a tiger if the druid could not attack with the extra attacks granted by pounce.

There are a few situations where this is not true. Alter self specifies that extra limbs do not grant you extra attacks. If you assume the form of a creature that has more than 4 limbs (perhaps a giant octopus), you'd be limited to one attack per limb for up to 4 limbs plus a bite (in the case of a giant octopus, that would be 4 tentacle attacks and one bite).

 

[Camarath]

There are a few situations where this is not true. Alter self specifies that extra limbs do not grant you extra attacks. If you assume the form of a creature that has more than 4 limbs (perhaps a giant octopus), you'd be limited to one attack per limb for up to 4 limbs plus a bite (in the case of a giant octopus, that would be 4 tentacle attacks and one bite).

From SRD Polymorph

It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form

 

[youspoonybard]

Can I get multiple attacks using the "unarmed strike" technique to do nonlethal damage based on character size?

 

[paranoid]

WotC CustServ

Just got a statement from the WotC customer support on a similar question (actually inspired by the initial problem of this thread):

Assuming a 12th-lv wizard (BAB +6/+1) is polymorphed
into a Troll (primary attack: 2 claws, secondary attack:
bite, STR bonus +6) and makes a full attack
(excluding possible feats and other spells).
How many attacks does he get?
- Full attack with 2 claws and bite (+12/+12/+7)
- or his normal 2 attacks (+12/+7)?
- If it's the latter, can he choose which natural weapons to use?

-He would get 3 attacks... 2 claws at +11 and 1 bite at +6 (don't forget they become large and have -1 to hit because of that)

if that Troll/wizard takes a club as a one-handed weapon, does he get his iterative attacks (+12/+7) with the club, followed by the remaining natural attacks (1 claw and 1 bite)? At what attack bonus?

-If he uses a weapon he gets 2 attacks +11/+6 and no natural attacks.

Grapple checks. Assuming the Troll/wizard wants to start a grapple with his natural attacks, how many grapple checks does he get, and at what bonus?

-2 grapple checks... the to hit bonuses are +11 and +6... the grapple check is always going to be +11 plus bonuses for size.

Are all answers also valid if the wizard polymorphs into a monster with much more attacks, say, a giant octopus (8 tentacles, 1 bite)?

-In the case of creatures that are not humanoid, the wizard would get its regular attack routine (2 attacks) using the creature's natural appendages.

What are his Attack bonuses if the wizard polymorphs into a Monster with fewer attacks, a Dire Boar, for example (1 gore, STR bonus +8)? Does he get his iterative attacks in this case, so +14/+9 or only one attack at +14?

-It is possible to take two attacks if his base attack allows for that.

A related question, not concerning polymorph:
Natural Weapons don't get iterative attacks, but aren't unarmed attacks considered "natural" weapons, too? So a human fighter striking unarmed does only get one attack at his full BAB?

-unarmed attacks made by a human (or any other standard PC race for that matter) are considered trained attacks... and as such get the full BAB... So a fighter with a BAB of +6 gets two attacks... this does not prevent attacks of opportunity provoked by such attacks however. They need the improved unarmed strike feat for that.

That's it.
Interesting part about the non-humanoids losing attacks, isn't it? Sounds like some house rule. As often, more questions are generated than answered by CustServ's answers. But instant response, though.

cheers,
paranoid.