Obi-Wan Kenobi (spoilers)

[Flamestrike]

All he had to do was to not make the jedi training start so young. Luke being "too old" to start, could have been by a couple of years. Vader killing "padawans" would have been plenty bad enough.

That scene always was just so jarring (as was the fall itself).

He certainly did a few questionable things in the Clone Wars (definately getting more jealous and occasionally dropping the odd force choke here or there) but his fall was just so sudden. Other than killing Dooku and some light genocide on Tatooine, there were not too many other acts, where you could say 'Yep, evil'.

And then suddenly, he's kneeling before the Emperor, and then off back to the place he just left on a speeder, to slaughter a ton of.... children?

Like I know he murdered a bunch of kids a while back on Tatooine (and told Padme about it, when they first started dating, and she was all like 'we all make mistakes sometimes Annie... like WTF?) but still.

Slaughtering the separatists first perhaps, and then Jedi, and then the kids.

Palpatine: Rise, Lord Vader, for your first task as a Sith, I want you to return to the Jedi temple where you were raised and trained, and where your friends all reside, and murder everyone inside. Do what must be done!
Vader: Even the younglings?
Palpatine: Especially the younglings.
Vader: Errr... that sounds a bit intense. Like, you cant get someone else to do that?
Palpatine: We didnt join you, you joined us remember? In for a penny, in for a pound my young apprentice. Now off you go. I have an important holonet call I've been dying to make for some time now...

 

[MarkB]

That scene always was just so jarring (as was the fall itself).

He certainly did a few questionable things in the Clone Wars (definately getting more jealous and occasionally dropping the odd force choke here or there) but his fall was just so sudden. Other than killing Dooku and some light genocide on Tatooine, there were not too many other acts, where you could say 'Yep, evil'.

And then suddenly, he's kneeling before the Emperor, and then off back to the place he just left on a speeder, to slaughter a ton of.... children?

Like I know he murdered a bunch of kids a while back on Tatooine (and told Padme about it, when they first started dating, and she was all like 'we all make mistakes sometimes Annie... like WTF?) but still.

Slaughtering the separatists first perhaps, and then Jedi, and then the kids.

Palpatine: Rise, Lord Vader, for your first task as a Sith, I want you to return to the Jedi temple where you were raised and trained, and where your friends all reside, and murder everyone inside. Do what must be done!
Vader: Even the younglings?
Palpatine: Especially the younglings.
Vader: Errr... that sounds a bit intense. Like, you cant get someone else to do that?
Palpatine: We didnt join you, you joined us remember? In for a penny, in for a pound my young apprentice. Now off you go. I have an important holonet call I've been dying to make for some time now...

One explanation / rationalisation I've heard is that Palpatine was telling him that he needed to become strong enough with the dark side in order to have the power to save Padme, so he basically deliberately went full-on evil in an effort to power himself up. Still doesn't make it sit any easier.

 

[Mannahnin]

I am happy to see how Leia knows Obi-wan and explains why her ship would be caught near Tatooine and why she would send her "Help Me" message to him in the original movie.

Agreed!

They set it up nicely, both in the Inquisitor's speech about how anyone who's still a Jedi will effectively hunt themselves, so Obi-wan's had to bury that side of himself in order to survive, and in his own obvious guilt over Anakin that's made him lose faith in the Jedi code. I think it's still going to be quite a journey for him to come back from that.

It felt very much in keeping with the rest of what Obi-wan was going through to me. He's got to have a lot of mixed feelings about the clones after having led so many of them in battle. At the same time, I couldn't help wondering whether the clone's Order 66 compulsion was still in there, and if he'd turn murderous in an instant if he caught a glimpse of Obi-wan's lightsaber.

I loved scene. Nice bit of grounding. I never much cared for the way the Clone Wars was done in the prequel, but seeing Temuera there as some poor anonymous clone trooper in the gutter was great.

Yeah, she's definitely bringing the Leia. I just wonder if they can bring her through all this close contact with Jedi and Inquisitors without playing up the fact that she's strong in the Force too. They've already hinted at it with her almost-supernatural insight into other peoples' personality.

I don't know how much of that is the force and how much of that is her being precociously brilliant, and Bail and Breha's child. I think the senator and the monarch likely have been training her in understanding people's motivations for as long as she's been alive.

Other thoughts: will see see the younglings from the opening scene of the attack on the temple? I assumed they showed them to us not just as a reminder of what happened but because they are important to the story going forward. I wonder if perhaps the Jedi who appealed to Obi-Wan for help before being caught was one of them.

What did the Grand Inquisitor mean when he described the Third Sister (Reva) as being “from the gutter”? She seems old enough to have been a youngling, but that comment makes me think she was never a Jedi but was a Force sensitive found by the Empire.

I think those two questions may be of a piece. One of those younglings looks like she could have grown up to be Third Sister, and she's even centred in the frame during the "what do we do now?" "we run." exchange, then takes the lead as they start running.

Those kids would still be too young to be that Jedi or Reva. They both look in their 20s and those kids would still be teens, if any survived. Remember that this is 10 years after Order 66.

Just looked up the age of the two actors and the one who played the Jedi is 36 and Moses Ingram/Reva is 29. So no way he is playing one of the kids, but I could see them trying to stretch it to make Reva maybe still late teens and maybe a child survivor of Order 66, or just as easy it could be family she lost that day and blames Obi-wan for letting it happen/not being their to protect them. She definitely has a personal grudge against him, though.

Yeah, the way the temple scene was placed, it seems like the intent is for Nari and Reva to have been two of the kids who escaped from the temple, and they're just supposed to be playing 20 year olds. The theory that Reva is the older sister of one of the slaughtered kids is also very reasonable, though. I wondered if Kumail's Haja was also going to be one of them, pulling a double-bluff, but was definitely happy with what they did with him.

The "from the gutter" line I think is meant to both convey his disdain for her Jedi childhood and to spotlight the race politics Star Wars has always included, with its human supremacist space nazis, for greater emotional effect. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Grand Inquisitor is whiter than White.

Well so far I love this show. I think bringing in little Leia was just a fantastically inspired idea. It recontextualizes why original movie Leia had such absolute faith in Obi-Wan Kenobi as the person she should turn to when she's in desperate need. It gives substantially more character development to the original trilogy main character who was most conspicuously underutilized. I had also always wondered about her pre-original trilogy life on Alderaan, as we just never got much information about it. It even raises the emotional stakes of Alderaan's destruction a little to have actually visited it not just in video games.

And the child actress is just doing a phenomenal job.

Ewan McGregor of course knocks his character out of the park, but we all just assumed he would, so that's not nearly as exciting as him getting paired with 10 year-old Leia.

And Leia wasn't exactly tall even as an adult, so the actress's height works.

Yeah, I loved her. Is she perfect as an actor? No. But she had multiple great scenes, and even the wooden bits (from her and others) seemed highly appropriate for Star Wars. I remember Carrie Fisher's remarks on Lucas' dialogue, and much as I love the original trilogy, much of the dialogue is far from naturalistic. And I think the acting in this was generally superior to the prequel trilogy. I thought she looked a LITTLE small, but then reflected that kids grow at different rates, and that Carrie Fisher was tiny; about 5' 1".

I'm always surprised how often I need to explain this to Star Wars fans: The Force is "with" her! "May the Force Be With You" is not an empty platitude in Star Wars.

When the force is with you, you get all the good luck, and your opponents get all the bad luck. Leia is a perfect example. She almost never misses her target when she fires a blaster, and Storm Troopers (who, in spite of what we seem to be shown, are supposed to be excellent shots) ALWAYS MISS. It's not that Storm Troopers SUCK, it's that we're constantly watching characters who the Force is WITH.

Those guys chasing her stumble over trees because the force is with HER, not THEM.

Yup. In-canon plot armor. I had a negative gut reaction about her outrunning full-grown adults, but it was assuaged by reminding myself a) Trope, b) The Force, c) they DID show her ducking through and under tight spots multiple times.

 

[Mezuka]

That is sad.

‘Star Wars’ calls out racism after attacks on Moses Ingram​

'Star Wars' calls out racism after attacks on Moses Ingram | CNN

The "Star Wars" franchise is sticking up for "Obi-Wan Kenobi" actor Moses Ingram after she revealed she had received hundreds of racist messages and comments on social media.

www.cnn.com

 

[Guest 7034872]

That is sad.

‘Star Wars’ calls out racism after attacks on Moses Ingram​

'Star Wars' calls out racism after attacks on Moses Ingram | CNN

The "Star Wars" franchise is sticking up for "Obi-Wan Kenobi" actor Moses Ingram after she revealed she had received hundreds of racist messages and comments on social media.

www.cnn.com

Some people, man.....

Would these same individuals send racist hate-mail to Mr. James Earl Jones for voicing Vader?? I mean, exactly what is their problem???

 

[Mezuka]

Some people, man.....

Would these same individuals send racist hate-mail to Mr. James Earl Jones for voicing Vader?? I mean, exactly what is their problem???

They are bigots. Simple as that.

 

[Morrus]

Some people, man.....

Would these same individuals send racist hate-mail to Mr. James Earl Jones for voicing Vader?? I mean, exactly what is their problem???

I think we know what their problem is. They’re racists.

 

[Nikosandros]

One explanation / rationalisation I've heard is that Palpatine was telling him that he needed to become strong enough with the dark side in order to have the power to save Padme, so he basically deliberately went full-on evil in an effort to power himself up. Still doesn't make it sit any easier.

My "explanation" is that by saving Palpatine and betraying Windu he kinda broke the dam and was completely overwhelmed by the Dark Side.

 

[Guest 7034872]

I think we know what their problem is. They’re racists.

I know--I just always find that entire mindset incomprehensible, though. It is such a deranged way of thinking.

 

[Flamestrike]

One explanation / rationalisation I've heard is that Palpatine was telling him that he needed to become strong enough with the dark side in order to have the power to save Padme, so he basically deliberately went full-on evil in an effort to power himself up. Still doesn't make it sit any easier.

I could have gotten behind a war weary Anakin, keen to see the war over after a decade of fighting it, so he can retire from the Jedi Order and be with his wife, being tasked to go on a special mission by Palpatine to terminate the Separatists who have just surrendered (and then taking things waaaaaay too far) 'for the greater good.'

So basically what happened on Mustafar.

Then the Jedi turn on him for the slaughter, and also find out Palps is the Sith. Palpatine then asks for his help again, to stop the new (Jedi-Sith) civil war about to erupt, and him making the hard decision to side with Palpatine, and going after the Jedi, because the die is basically already cast.

Ending with him killing kids.

The war is over, we now have peace and order, and then before he gets to enjoy it, Obi Wan pops up and they duel.

Instead Lucas did it in reverse, and it just feels so rushed, arbitrary and (notwithstanding his prior act of genocide) false to his character in many ways.