D&D 4E Obligatory dump stats in 4e: the irrelevance of Intelligence

[Spatula]

Huh, I guess you were serious. Okay, I'll re-phrase to make it clearer:

- Knowledge: only the highest result matters.
- Stealth: only the lowest result matters.
- Perception: every result matters individually.

It's irrelevant if I dump Int, so long as there are enough other party members who don't.

Now do you understand?

Cheers, -- N

While I would say the above is true in 3e, in 4e skills like Arcana are useful for more than 1 person to have thanks to skill challenges and similar mechanics (traps).

 

[Spatula]

Mechanicly, its correct, theres not much of a difference. The whole difference lies in the fluff, wich is non-existant in the mechanical monster that is 4th ed.

How has the "fluff" for Charisma changed in 4e?

Name the edition!

"Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness."

"Charisma measures your force of personality, persuasiveness, and leadership."

"Charisma is the measure of the character's combined physical attractiveness, persuasiveness, and personal magnetism."

 

[ThirdWizard]

Huh, I guess you were serious. Okay, I'll re-phrase to make it clearer:

- Knowledge: only the highest result matters.
- Stealth: only the lowest result matters.
- Perception: every result matters individually.

It's irrelevant if I dump Int, so long as there are enough other party members who don't.

Now do you understand?

There's this thing in 4e called a "Skill Challenge" in which everyone's results count equally.

 

[see]

Not necessarily true. A javelin has an impressive 10/20 range and is Heavy Thrown. Str is all you need there.

Almost works – the trouble is that javelins have listed cost and weight, while ammunition for slings, crossbows, and bows don't. So, in a case where you can't close to melee range, your number of javelin throws is implicitly limited to the number you carry, while your number of Dex-based ranged attacks isn't.

 

[Nifft]

There's this thing in 4e called a "Skill Challenge" in which everyone's results count equally.

Wow, lots of snarky in this thread.

Response: use a secondary skill, "group skill checks" (page 75), the fact that knowledge skill checks are seldom Skill Challenges.

-- N

 

[AllisterH]

Almost works – the trouble is that javelins have listed cost and weight, while ammunition for slings, crossbows, and bows don't. So, in a case where you can't close to melee range, your number of javelin throws is implicitly limited to the number you carry, while your number of Dex-based ranged attacks isn't.

Not really.

All "Thrown" magical weapons have the "returning" property inherent.

 

[Zelc]

I didn't read the 10 pages, but here's an easy change for symmetry: Initiative uses the higher of Dex or Int, just like Reflex defense. Possibly already suggested .

 

[Samurai]

I didn't read the 10 pages, but here's an easy change for symmetry: Initiative uses the higher of Dex or Int, just like Reflex defense. Possibly already suggested .

If both stats can do everything the other can do, why even have 2 different stats? Just fold them into 1 stat and be done with it.

Personally, I think there should be differences, some things 1 can do that the other can't. Dex already has several things it can do that Int can't, such as basic ranged attacks and Init. So just give a little something to Int that Dex can't duplicate, and it's all good. That's why I like the skill bonuses.

 

[Zelc]

If both stats can do everything the other can do, why even have 2 different stats? Just fold them into 1 stat and be done with it.

Personally, I think there should be differences, some things 1 can do that the other can't. Dex already has several things it can do that Int can't, such as basic ranged attacks and Init. So just give a little something to Int that Dex can't duplicate, and it's all good. That's why I like the skill bonuses.

Well, Wis and Cha are like that :/. And they do apply to different skills.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Haven't really followed the entire thread.

I will say that I agree that Intelligence is somewhat lacking in "things to do," for lack of a better term. However, I do think there are enough classes that want high intelligence that it is probably ok. Given the kinds of actions that Wizards and Warlords contribute, I think they'll be popular. Or at least, not worse than 3.x and Charisma.

I dunno. We'll see. Books are coming in 5 days, after that give about 3 months of playtests and I think we'll have a much better idea of what's what.