Obtaining permanent spell resistance

[Axel]

After my most recent 3.5 session, we (the group) had a fairly vigorous debate about the 'problems' of spellcasters, notably the almost guaranteed damage they can inflict via area effect spells. During the session we had been on the receiving end of at least 3 different sorcerors/wizards, each well placed, behind enough moops (including moops with rogue levels and crossbows) to make life hard and so on. It didn't go particularly well, though at least the casters are dead now.

One of the points brought up was that a physical attack must make what is almost an contested roll (BAB + dice >= AC) before you can roll damage. Spellcasters aren't bound by this restriction, though they have the option to up the damage level of their spell if they roll a ranged touch attack. Granted, you don't get a saving throw against a physical attack. Spell resistance introduces an attack roll type mechanism into the equation, with full casters having a spell penetration bonus not too different to a full fighter's bonus to hit. The advantage is still with the caster, rather than the grateful receiver, but forcing a roll is better than just copping another lightning bolt in the face. The problem: spell resistance is bloody hard to obtain as far as I can tell.

I am looking at ways to get ahold of spell resistance for my character. Does anyone know of any reasonably priced magic items that grant spell resistance (party is between level 4 and level 6), or a prestige class that can obtain spell resistance? I'm not interested in permanancy + buff, that's too easy to lose for the cost.

 

[anest1s]

After my most recent 3.5 session, we (the group) had a fairly vigorous debate about the 'problems' of spellcasters, notably the almost guaranteed damage they can inflict via area effect spells. During the session we had been on the receiving end of at least 3 different sorcerors/wizards, each well placed, behind enough moops (including moops with rogue levels and crossbows) to make life hard and so on. It didn't go particularly well, though at least the casters are dead now.

One of the points brought up was that a physical attack must make what is almost an contested roll (BAB + dice >= AC) before you can roll damage. Spellcasters aren't bound by this restriction, though they have the option to up the damage level of their spell if they roll a ranged touch attack. Granted, you don't get a saving throw against a physical attack. Spell resistance introduces an attack roll type mechanism into the equation, with full casters having a spell penetration bonus not too different to a full fighter's bonus to hit. The advantage is still with the caster, rather than the grateful receiver, but forcing a roll is better than just copping another lightning bolt in the face. The problem: spell resistance is bloody hard to obtain as far as I can tell.

I am looking at ways to get ahold of spell resistance for my character. Does anyone know of any reasonably priced magic items that grant spell resistance (party is between level 4 and level 6), or a prestige class that can obtain spell resistance? I'm not interested in permanancy + buff, that's too easy to lose for the cost.

evasion is much more better, i think....

 

[Jhaelen]

I think the real problem isn't getting an item granting SR (there are several), it's getting an item that grants a relevant amount of SR (there are none). An item granting you, say, SR 13 is utterly useless. Besides the caster level of such an item is likely to be low, so it's as easily suppressed as a permanency spell is dispelled.

So, unless your character gets SR as a racial ability you can pretty much forget it. Additionally, SR isn't that desirable anyway: It will often get in the way when allies try to help you, e.g. by casting a healing spell on you!

In my group enemy casters tend to do little damage using area spells. The main reason being the psion protecting them using Intellect Fortress and the cleric having cast Mass Energy Resist. If you allow Complete Psion there's also Dampen Power.

And if you really want to get SR, it's relatively easy to get it temporarily using Power Resistance or Spell Resistance.

What classes are the pcs in your party? I think, it is likely that if enemy spellcaster are so dangerous to you, the spell casters in your group are doing something wrong.

 

[irdeggman]

Tactics is your best friend here.

Don't bunch up - area effect spells generally affect a relatively small area at that level.

Come in at mutliple angles.

Use casters versus casters.

Good reflex saves help a lot.

What is your party's make up in regards to classes?

 

[Dandu]

Even with spell resistance, conjurations will make you cry.

 

[Axel]

Party makeup is pretty simple. Most are straight classes as follows:
- Cleric (Setup as a healer)
- Barbarian
- Rogue
- Fighter
- Sorceror (Every spell known seems to be a direct damage spell of some variation)
- Warblade/Cleric (My character, no intention to progress Warblade past level 2. Spell selection revolves around combat buffs.)

We're allowed any of the core classes, plus the Complete books and Tome of Battle. The general feel of the group is to minimise the amount of twinkery and excessive optimisation (play a character, not a miniature wargame).

We were forced into a tight formation by the terrain (natural tunnel/cavern). There were also some delightful sniper perches up high for the crossbow wielding rogues to rain arrows on the sorceror. It was clearly setup as a deliberate ambush attempt, and it worked pretty well. We were well and truly ambushed, and thoroughly bloodied by the end of it. To be honest, the dice gods were elsewhere that night too - the first 4 attack rolls against my character were 3 threats and 2 criticals...

The party is weak in ranged combat, I'm quite prepared to admit that. We have discussed it before, after copping a beating from Gnolls with bows, but seem to have done nothing out of inertia. I'm going to build my character towards being more effective with a bow, but it takes time (see previous thread I made re: Cleric Archers).

Mass Resist Energy (and its single target cousin) is a great spell, but out of our reach for now. It'll be on the list as soon as it becomes available. In the meantime, I am hoping to "armour up" against damage spells once we return to town. I had hoped to find a sirelatively cheap item that gives me a SR of 15+, until we can get access to the Mass Resist spells. At the very least, it gives me a chance of escaping scot free. A chance (even 1 in 5) is better than no chance.

The Spell Resistance spell is pointless, from what I read of it. SR 12 + caster level (so minimum SR21for a level 9 Cleric) is not worth the level 5 spell slot. It MIGHT be useful as a domain spell, but that's really it. It competes with Flame Strike, 'nuff said.

 

[Jack Simth]

Party makeup is pretty simple. Most are straight classes as follows:
- Cleric (Setup as a healer)
- Barbarian
- Rogue
- Fighter
- Sorceror (Every spell known seems to be a direct damage spell of some variation)
- Warblade/Cleric (My character, no intention to progress Warblade past level 2. Spell selection revolves around combat buffs.)

We're allowed any of the core classes, plus the Complete books and Tome of Battle. The general feel of the group is to minimise the amount of twinkery and excessive optimisation (play a character, not a miniature wargame).

We were forced into a tight formation by the terrain (natural tunnel/cavern). There were also some delightful sniper perches up high for the crossbow wielding rogues to rain arrows on the sorceror. It was clearly setup as a deliberate ambush attempt, and it worked pretty well. We were well and truly ambushed, and thoroughly bloodied by the end of it. To be honest, the dice gods were elsewhere that night too - the first 4 attack rolls against my character were 3 threats and 2 criticals...

The party is weak in ranged combat, I'm quite prepared to admit that. We have discussed it before, after copping a beating from Gnolls with bows, but seem to have done nothing out of inertia. I'm going to build my character towards being more effective with a bow, but it takes time (see previous thread I made re: Cleric Archers).

Mass Resist Energy (and its single target cousin) is a great spell, but out of our reach for now. It'll be on the list as soon as it becomes available. In the meantime, I am hoping to "armour up" against damage spells once we return to town. I had hoped to find a sirelatively cheap item that gives me a SR of 15+, until we can get access to the Mass Resist spells. At the very least, it gives me a chance of escaping scot free. A chance (even 1 in 5) is better than no chance.

The Spell Resistance spell is pointless, from what I read of it. SR 12 + caster level (so minimum SR21for a level 9 Cleric) is not worth the level 5 spell slot. It MIGHT be useful as a domain spell, but that's really it. It competes with Flame Strike, 'nuff said.

So... your DM is killing you via tactics. And doing it quite carefully, so that you can still survive, when the dice are against you, without doing anything particularly obvious. You've got a rather good DM. Bravo.

As for SR:
Good luck. There's not really an item that fits your requirements, but SR is a pain anyway - it takes a standard action to lower so that you can let a beneficial spell through... and lowering isn't selective. And almost all the helpful or healing spells permit SR. Which pretty much means if you've got a significant amount of SR, you can't benefit from helpful spells (including healing spells). Oh yes, and you can't take standard actions if you're unconscious - so if you go into the negatives from damage, you've got a problem.

A slightly better solution is to start using tactics yourselves. You've got a Blaster Sorcerer, a healer, a buffer, two melee specialists, and a skillmonkey. If you're having trouble with casters, use a caster-counter method:

1) Readied actions to disrupt spellcasting (if they're far away or nearby).
2) Grappling (if they're nearby).

If you don't have any particular ranged attacks yourselves... likely except for the blaster Sorcerer. So have him ready actions if you find out you're up against spellcasters. Damage forces concentration checks - 10+damage dealt+the level of the spell you're trying to cast. Which means that opposing Sorcerer-6, when hit by, say, a Sorcerer-6's Fireball, needs to make a DC 23.5 (if he makes his reflex save, on average) Concentration check to cast a 3rd level spell. If he doesn't make his reflex save, that DC goes up to 34 (on average) - which is out of reach for most casters of that level, without concentrating very hard on the Concentrate skill. And it still deals damage to the target

Now, while you're at a level where you can reasonably expect spellcasters to get out of grapples periodically (Dimension Door), you're not really at a level where you can reasonably expect spellcasters to be immune to grapples in the first place (Ring of Freedom of Movement, the Heart of Water spell, a few other methods). Stop and actually read the grappling rules all the way through. They are MADE OF PAIN for a spellcaster at your level - full-round action to get focuses or material components in hand where they can be used, a non-trivial concentration check to cast anything at all (20+Spell level), and oh yes: Can't cast anything with Somatic components (95+% of spells), and standard action spells only ... so no spontaneous metamagic (well, without the assorted means to avoid the increased casting time). Unless the opposing caster has specifically prepared against grappling, the opposing spellcaster is kinda sunk if it happens. Sure, grappling without the feat investment provokes an AoO from the target... which spoils the grapple if it hits ... but that only matters if the target threatens, and most spellcasters don't.

 

[irdeggman]

Party makeup is pretty simple. Most are straight classes as follows:
- Cleric (Setup as a healer)

Do not fall into the trap of thinking that the cleric must have prepared his cure spells with his spell slots.

Prepare other more useful combat/buffing spells and if necessary spontaneaous swap them for cure spells.

Clerics are no longer automatically heal bots with no other useful traits.

 

[Persiflage]

Not that I think I can add much, but... Illusions. Even a silent image of a Big Freakin' Wall can provide total concealment to your party whilst you get close enough to bring on the pain. From the look of your party setup you don't have obvious recourse to that sort of thing, but a simple wand that your Sorceror can use could cut down on damage received from ranged ambushes by a massive amount.

My personal favourite illusion was a giant one-way mirror in front of the party (the DM made the mistake of allowing us to come across one, after which I used it all the time) but that might be a bit much for many DM's.

Wall spells are great, and if you're using Spell Compendium there are several low-level options. Similarly, obscuring mist (referred to in our group as "Obscuring... missed!") is great if the other side have overwhelming ranged capability compared to your group: and that's a spell you already have.

Basically though, what Jack said.

 

[Axel]

Thanks for all the advice guys/gals. You've convinced me that I no longer want, or ever particularly want, a form of Spell Resistance. As the current "designated archer" for the party I'll take your comments re: readied actions to heart (next purchase: MW strength rated composite bow). That seems to be "my" job more than any other party member's. At least until I can get Dispel Magic, which should only be around Christmas time or so if we keep up the current pace. My character also has a "strong" Tumble skill as a relic of Warblade levels, so access to casters for grappling/melee should work wonders. I think I'll continue character development with "anti-caster" tactics in mind. It even fits my character's background...can't think why I didn't think of it myself. Thanks, again!

Re: DM and his tactics.
It's a relatively new campaign, after the last one wound up around level 15 or so. During that campaign, the current DM was basically our party tactician and was bloody good at working out positioning and sequencing. I should've realised that he would do the same thing when playing for the other team. Must...play...smarter!