Occult Slayer & Spell Turning.

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I agree, it's a poorly designed prestige class

It's far too powerful as written. The Asmodeus example is an excellent reason as to why. More to the point, in a world where Occult Slayers exist, no Lich (or even most other high level wizards) is ever going to cast the Disintegrate spell, because they're toast if they target one.

Why would WoTC think that a 7th level wizard spell usable as a free action is an appropriate low-level power for a fighter oriented prestige class? I wish the designer in question would come here and defend their decision. We could give them an education on game design that they sorely need.

Ken

 

[Scratched_back]

100% immune to two spells a day! Woo doggie! Oh wait, also has to be a targetted spell, there goes all of those area of affect spells.



Well, if it were a constant effect, yes, yet note that it can be used at most twice a day. Not that powerful.

Perhaps you should read the class again friend, the 100% immunity I was talking about is a separate feature. At 5th level they gain the ability to blank their mind making them IMMUNE TO MIND AFFECTING SPELLS as well as pattern effects etc... in ADDITION he gets to turn 2 spells per day.

I believe the phrase was "woo doggie!"

 

[noeuphoria]

As someone who was considering an occult slayer, I don't think they were incredibly overpowered. For one, Spell Turning can turn epic spells. Epic spells count as level 10, which is well within the ken of that spell. Also, you can't turn disentigrate because you can't turn rays. Yes its a fighter class, but it's also a prestige class made to defeat spellcasters. And much like the hunter of the dead or the knight of the chalice, against it's intended enemy, it owns. I won't say it isn't high on the power curve, but this is the same book with frenzied berzerker and dervish, both of which I think are incredibly powerful classes also.

 

[Scratched_back]

Of course, it only works on specifically targeted spells. As in, you cannot turn a meteor swarm. You could turn a DC 400 Epic Charm spell, but then the caster's just Charmed himself, and what good does that really do?

If you check the actual book itself matey, the example used is a charm person targetting the occult slayer. The text in the example says that it acts as YOU charming HIM.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you check the actual book itself matey, the example used is a charm person targetting the occult slayer. The text in the example says that it acts as YOU charming HIM.

Which, unfortunately, is not a position supported by the actual rules.

 

[moritheil]

Also, you can't turn disentigrate because you can't turn rays. Yes its a fighter class, but it's also a prestige class made to defeat spellcasters. And much like the hunter of the dead or the knight of the chalice, against it's intended enemy, it owns. I won't say it isn't high on the power curve, but this is the same book with frenzied berzerker and dervish, both of which I think are incredibly powerful classes also.

Starting at 2nd level, an occult slayer can cause a spell or spell-like ability targeted against her to rebound onto the originator as a free action. This ability otherwise functions as the spell turning spell

Emphasis added. Is the disintegrate targeted at her or not?

 

[Scratched_back]

Emphasis added. Is the disintegrate targeted at her or not?

Well it's a range touch attack, you have to target someone to make an attack by the very nature of the word! I think the only way it couldn't be turned is if by sheer fluke the caster was aiming at somebody else and the ray hit him by accident... :\

 

[Scratched_back]

Which, unfortunately, is not a position supported by the actual rules.

That would cause a frickin' riot in my session... supported by the rules or not, it states clearly in the text that that's what is does do.

Has anyone checked thee errata?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That would cause a frickin' riot in my session... supported by the rules or not, it states clearly in the text that that's what is does do.

That text, then, is wrong.

The original caster of the spell is still the same person. Thus, if someone casts a spell on me, and I turn it, it's as if he had instead cast the spell on himself.

Consider a spell which does 1d6 / level fire damage on a target. I (a 10th-level caster) am hit with this spell by a 14th level caster, but I have spell turning up, which completely affects the spell. How much damage does the spell do? 14d6.

Even better - I am hit by the same spell, but the spell is only 1/2 turned. According to spell turning:

For damaging spells, you and the caster each take a fraction of the damage.

Would you then suppose that the original caster takes .5 * 10d6 damage (1d6 * my CL), while I take .5*14d6 damage (1d6 * his CL)?

No, we each take a fraction of the damage, meaning we each take .5 * 14d6.

About your other question:

Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected.

Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present.

You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range.

Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack.

Disintegrate
Transmutation
Level: Destruction 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Disintegrate is not a targeted spell, it is an effect spell. It creates a ray, which may be directed. This is an important, sometimes silly, distinction. Thus:

Well it's a range touch attack, you have to target someone to make an attack by the very nature of the word!

is not an issue.

 

[moritheil]

Disintegrate is not a targeted spell, it is an effect spell. It creates a ray, which may be directed. This is an important, sometimes silly, distinction.

That was actually my question, not his. Thanks.