Odd levels for fighters

[was]

One thing that I've seen done is providing bonuses on saving throws to resist fatigue at odd levels. You could also do something with armor familiarity. For example:
1.) Armor familiarity I: reduces check penalties by one, 1/2 time required to don/take off while in light armor.
2.) Armor familiarity II: reduces check penalties by two, 1/2 time required to don/take off while in light or medium armor.
3.) Armor familiarity III: reduces check penalties by three, 1/2 time required to don/take off while in light, medium or heavy armor.
--just a thought-

 

[Theocrat]

Hi all -
I too agree that the Fighter HAS become underpowered. Reviewing the Samurai class
(CW) and the Scout class (CA), each gets a new ability every level. The scout also gets a new feat every 4 levels, in addition to the awesome powers they recieve. Their negative is the lack of armor wearing.
The samurai has to use the asian weapons, but I've long proposed exchanging them for race/ location approriate weapons (such as the Dwarven War Axe and or War Hammer [why is it that this is not a racial weapon] and renaming the class Thane).

But now that there are all these new core classes (such as what I mentioned above), shouldn't WotC re-examine the PHB and create an ultimate PHB? One that includes all the new classes, races and spells from all the books? This way, balancing can be restored. Give an explanation as to why they believe the Scout and Samurai class are still balanced to the Fighter.
As for combining a PHB, I've done something similar - I photocopied the pages from various books and inserted them to my PHB (cut the binding and re-bound it at Kinko's). It's over 600+ pages, so I can see why they wouldn't do it. How bout a PHB of Classes, Races and Feats and another PHB of spells?

 

[smootrk]

good point, the choice proposed is for each level or for the overall advancement?

My thoughts are for the bonuses to be acquired on the levels that do not grant a Fighter Bonus Feat... The levels that grant bonus (ftr) feats are good enough (IMO).

 

[Sadrik]

I think a secondary list of feats would be the best way to improve the odd level.

Make this feat list more utilitarian though rather than combat oriented.

Sadrik

 

[smootrk]

One thing that I've seen done is providing bonuses on saving throws to resist fatigue at odd levels. You could also do something with armor familiarity. For example:
1.) Armor familiarity I: reduces check penalties by one, 1/2 time required to don/take off while in light armor.
2.) Armor familiarity II: reduces check penalties by two, 1/2 time required to don/take off while in light or medium armor.
3.) Armor familiarity III: reduces check penalties by three, 1/2 time required to don/take off while in light, medium or heavy armor.
--just a thought-

I like these ideas, although I would just make it apply to all armor and make the time reduction be fractional (ie. reduced by 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 to any armor donning, and allow those armors that normally require assistance to don properly be donned independantly at the last increment).

 

[Sadrik]

Armor donning thing is better as a feat I think. Let the cleric take that too (or whoever wants it.)

Split some of the fighter feats out of the fighter list into the defensive utilitarian list.

So things like power attack, cleave, improved trip, weapon focus/specialization etc. could be in the odd level feats.

The even level feats could be things like donning the armor more quickly as above, fast movement feat (cant remember the name), dodge, great fortitude, improved initiative, combat expertise etc.

Basically defensive and utilitarian stuff on the even levels 2, 4, 6...

And offensive stuff on the odd levels

It would take a little work to make two lists but I think that it maintains the flavor of the fighter of being versital. Better that than forcing them into a specific ability or small group of abilities that they may not want.

Sadrik

 

[smootrk]

I think a secondary list of feats would be the best way to improve the odd level.

Make this feat list more utilitarian though rather than combat oriented.

Sadrik

I think this is also a very good idea. Make fighters get a feat at every level, but have the feat lists reorganized into 2 or 3 groupings... Offensive, Defensive, Utility, and have the level tied to which list the character can choose from.

Another variation/extrapolation on this idea is to pre-determine the type of fighter as Focused on Offense/Defense/ or Utility... The even level gets feat from the fighter's chosen path, and the odd level get feat from the other lists alternating between the two.

This would require the most re-working of the class. But can be adapted especially for fighter who chooses utility to be much more than the current fighter list allows. He could be Outdoorsy (track, wilderness skills, animal handling, mounted feats), or Military minded (feats for artillery use, Leadership/commander feats), Gladitorial, Knightly, or other tracks which might be slightly less oriented on pure combat. All for a much more diverse fighter.

 

[smootrk]

Armor donning thing is better as a feat I think. Let the cleric take that too (or whoever wants it.)

Split some of the fighter feats out of the fighter list into the defensive utilitarian list.

So things like power attack, cleave, improved trip, weapon focus/specialization etc. could be in the odd level feats.

The even level feats could be things like donning the armor more quickly as above, fast movement feat (cant remember the name), dodge, great fortitude, improved initiative, combat expertise etc.

Basically defensive and utilitarian stuff on the even levels 2, 4, 6...

And offensive stuff on the odd levels

It would take a little work to make two lists but I think that it maintains the flavor of the fighter of being versital. Better that than forcing them into a specific ability or small group of abilities that they may not want.

Sadrik

I see that we are thinking along similar lines.

 

[Sadrik]

Yes we are.

I think two lists would be all you need for simplicities sake. Otherwise it becomes a real chore to split the feats.

However, for sombody who doesnt mind the work. A really cool thing to do would be to have a general list and then create specific schools of training for fighters. Sort of like the rangers combat techniques. Basically grant feats that are not on the generic fighter list that they can take if they belong to that school.

I can think of a bunch of schools:
archery school
duelist/ one handed- rapier school
duelist/ two weapon fighting school
great axe charge ka-pow school
and the list could go on and on...

Sadrik

 

[S'mon]

I'm thinking maybe a free level in a Fighting Style (from Quint Fighter) at 3rd, 5th, 7th... an extra feat is a bit OTT IMO.