Odd levels for fighters

[Baronovan]

Well, I appreciate your honest reply. Frankly, I felt it necessary to underscore my feelings that not everything in the game needs to be fixed just because it doesn't yield enough power for every John Q. Munchkin out there. Especially with an equation as simple as the Fighter. Besides that, the phrase isn't as insulting as it could have been. I am good friends with Dyson, afterall.

 

[smootrk]

IMO the thread was generating very good ideas and those ideas were evolving the entire time. I'm sure the concepts are not for everyone, especially those who hold the core books as 'holy scriptures'....

I do not want to incite more harmful criticisms. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[Baronovan]

Core rules are certainly not "holy" anything, but there's a degree of over-amplification that happens when people aren't fully versed in how certain things work. This fighter thread is a perfect example. If people played a fighter past 6th level for one time in their lives and actually appreciated the simplicity and straight-forwardness of the class, threads like this wouldn't happen, because they would be found (much as I have found it) to be wholly unnecessary.

 

[the Jester]

Has anyone who is proposing giving the fighter extras actually played a fighter up to high levels without prestige classes or multiclassing?

In my opinion, a high-level fighter is fine, given the presence of sufficient high-level feats.

 

[Baronovan]

the JESTER!! I'm buying you DINNER!

Thank you. You shore up my case. I watched a player of mine PC a fighter from 1st to 30th without one complaint other than I use Balors with too much glee.

 

[Sadrik]

Alright we can alter course on this thread to *is the fighter too weak or too strong* it seems relevant.

I personally feel the fighter is the weakest class Baronovan may not feel that is the case. You are exactly right about one thing they are extremely simple and straigtforward. Taking the combat feats are very powerful and I have run enough games and seen enough fighters that can dish out plenty of damage and make use of so some pretty powerful feats (power attack, improved trip, improved crit etc.). Then again, I have never had just a straight single classed fighter in my game in many years. Why is that the case? It is two fold fighters are garbage at upper levels (5th+) by themselves and they just beg to multi-class. What fighter cannot benefit from a level in barbarian or depending on your character style ranger or even paladin if you can meet the requirments and then there is the myriad of PrC's that fighters can get into.

IMO I think they need to be better. Also IMO your random cleric or druid or even rogue can be a better fighter, not to mention the barbarian, ranger or paladin. Right now the fighter is a, "I guess I'll hop into that class for two levels, to get two bonus fighter feats. Then I'll do what I really want."

To balnce them. More feats would be fine by me as long as there are two groups one offensive and the other defensive/utilitarian. Odd levels you get things like powerattack and on even levels you get things like quickdraw and toughness.

Not overly powerful in my mind. It does give them a benefit but nothing that jumps out and says broken.

 

[The Prophecy]

So i've played a fighter until 30th from the beginning and still kicking strong.

There is nothing wrong with teh fighter class outside of maybe getting stale with it.

How is it under power-ed?

All 20th level fighters get a total of 18 feats (including character). Almost one per level. Isn't that enough? If your human it's 19. Don't be ungrateful because instead of picking Combat Expertise you wasted one of your many feats on Nimble Fingers.

The Fighter needs nothing more than some extra feats he can take, if he's that stale to you.

As far as the core books being holy. Maybe you should honor them that way. Might keep you from being a Monte Cook.

 

[The Prophecy]

Yes Baronovan, I know that Dyson character as well......he is insulting.

 

[Baronovan]

More feats, by all means. Just don't alter the class design. If a fighter gets squat at 5th and 7th level... hey, show some dedication, will ya? Just because there's a dry spell here and there doesn't mean it won't pay off. As The Prophecy said, a human fighter has almost a feat per level once he hits 20th. That's nice, and if you don't know what to do with that or how to make it work for you, go play BESM or something.

 

[The Prophecy]

Then again, I have never had just a straight single classed fighter in my game in many years. Why is that the case? It is two fold fighters are garbage at upper levels (5th+) by themselves and they just beg to multi-class.

Maybe your fighter should be fighting in an adventuring group and not by himself.

It's a munchkin character if you make him so he is completely self-sufficient. A wizard is just meat on a hook without a fighter in front of him, should we up his HD?

If your character is lacking in something the player wants him to do, then multiclass, it's the players fault for not utlizing what he's got or just plain and simple....the player wasn't looking to play a plain fighter.

The fighter is supposed to be basic so you can make him whatever you want.

If you can't do that with 18 feats...why are you playing?