D&D General Of Consent, Session 0 and Hard Decisions.

[GrimCo]

I have 4 regulars. If i want to run something specific and more than one is not on board, i'm happy to let someone else in group DM's. If no one has anything ready, i'm ok with not playing until someone else prepares their game. Until then, we can play Descent ( as we did on several occasions when none had anything prepared) or just get together over coffee and hang out. For me personally, running a game i'm not 100% into isn't an option. YMMW.

 

[Lanefan]

When did it become a negative to take into consideration the feelings and problems of others?

The tipping point lies where that consideration forces you to overwrite or bury any feelings and-or problems you might have yourself.

There also seems to be a pattern to this where "I don't want..." is consistently expected/allowed to overrule "We do want...", which (speaking from experience) merely plays into the hands of the selfish.

 

[Zardnaar]

The tipping point lies where that consideration forces you to overwrite or bury any feelings and-or problems you might have yourself.

There also seems to be a pattern to this where "I don't want..." is consistently expected/allowed to overrule "We do want...", which (speaking from experience) merely plays into the hands of the selfish.

Yup I've seen it wreck games as well.

Greek game for example I've tech locked it to 432 BC. Anything after that is unavailable. I have a list of suitable equipment.

BUT the name of campaign is Fate of Atlantis. Atlanteans have stuff like full plate.

They have found an Atlantean dagger and
long bow. Last night +2 splint mail dropped. Atlantean armor first set.

They also know it's aquatic game. It's starting to dawn on them the really good stiff is tied to errm the fate of Atlantis.

So I'm being a hard ass as to what they can buy or make but there's s built in way to go get it.

It's enhanced the game/vibe/theme. Chomping at the bit to find that stuff espicially since I'm awarding xp for magic items recovery as well.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Please stop this personal attack.

Although I don't necessarily agree with @Remathilis on this issue entirely, I do see their word change was pretty much a philosophical statement of humankind rather than one directed at those who hold an opposite view on them on this topic.

Many of us hold some hard lines here or there on certain issues - I certainly do so I try not to begrudge others for holding their hard line. It just gets tricky when it becomes personal.

 

[Zardnaar]

Although I don't necessarily agree with @Remathilis on this issue entirely, I do see their word change was pretty much a philosophical statement of humankind rather than one directed at those who hold an opposite view on them on this topic.

Many of us hold some hard lines here or there on certain issues - I certainly do so I try not to begrudge others for holding their hard line. It just gets tricky when it becomes personal.

Everyone's hard lines are different. If I'm talking to a prospective DM first things I ask are what's allowed, what do you want to do and your rules. If I don't like what they're offering I opt out no big deal. Not absolute hard lines but I'm not after a megadungeon or heavy role playing group.

I also don't want to run or play Curse of Strahd again. Didn't offend me as such but not my style and opportunity cost. Had fun just don't want to repeat it.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Yup I've seen it wreck games as well.

Greek game for example I've tech locked it to 432 BC. Anything after that is unavailable. I have a list of suitable equipment.

BUT the name of campaign is Fate of Atlantis. Atlanteans have stuff like full plate.

They have found an Atlantean dagger and
long bow. Last night +2 splint mail dropped. Atlantean armor first set.

They also know it's aquatic game. It's starting to dawn on thrm the really good stiff is tied to roll errm the fate of Atlantis.

So I'm being a hard ass as to what they can buy or make but there's s built in way to go get it.

It's enhanced the game/vibe/theme. Chomping at the bit to find that stuff espicially since I'm awarding xp for magic items recovery as well.

I'm struggling to understand how this ties into @Lanefan's post since you replied to him.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Everyone's hard lines are different. If I'm talking to a prospective DM first things I ask are what's allowed, what do you want to do and your rules. If I don't like what they're offering I opt out no big deal.

Same. I won't play with a DM who has a history of dropping campaigns no matter how good they are. Go waste someone else's time.

I have no issue with my cool character dying. I have an issue with them lying in limbo.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm struggling to understand how this ties into @Lanefan's post since you replied to him.

May have been wrong person but distracted.

I'm not going to run certain things without consent. I can tweak things if anythings a problem. In not going to junk a campaign or something I really want to play over a single person's opinion.

At some point you have to put your foot down. If any of the 5E Starter sets offend you for example idk what to say or do but D&D may not be the game for you.

You're going to gave to draw a line somewhere and someone might get left out.

 

[Zardnaar]

Same. I won't play with a DM who has a history of dropping campaigns no matter how good they are. Go waste someone else's time.

I have no issue with my cool character dying. I have an issue with them lying in limbo.

I dropped a campaign recently. First tine in 9 years. Final decision won't be made until Sunday but it looks like one player won't be invited back and another is on thin ice. Other players don't want to game with them.

The thin ice one was a bad combo with other player by themselves they're fine most of the time (can be a bit to greedy/screentime).

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The tipping point lies where that consideration forces you to overwrite or bury any feelings and-or problems you might have yourself.

Not one person has advocated that in this thread, and none of the tools discussed in this thread are made for that purpose. To use them this way would be explicitly abusing them and, in fact, turning them against the purpose for which they were conceived.

I'm also more than a little skeptical that all that many of them could even in principle be used to try to coerce someone to "overwrite or bury any feelings and-or problems" someone else might have, because the whole point is to ease communication and give a voice to those who struggle to speak because of fear, anxiety, or worries that one would breach the social contract (becoming a "party pooper" or a "wet blanket" etc., etc., etc.) merely for trying to not feel emotionally shredded.

There also seems to be a pattern to this where "I don't want..." is consistently expected/allowed to overrule "We do want...", which (speaking from experience) merely plays into the hands of the selfish.

Where do you see this in this thread?

Because these tools are (explicitly and specifically) designed to only help with "I don't want..." when that desire-against is because it would be traumatic or demoralizing or otherwise experience-ruining for the asker, while avoiding or ameliorating whatever the issue is would be of little to no consequence to anyone else.

Raising the specter of possible, theoretical bogeymen as a justification for actively disparaging tools designed to help people be comfortable in their own skin at the TTRPG table is not the best look. It's excruciatingly easy to dismiss valid, serious issues with "well maybe someone participating in bad faith could use this as a cudgel to beat people, so nobody should ever be allowed to use it or anything like it." That's not an acceptable argument. If you're going to raise a criticism like this, it needs something more concrete. Just as my example with my cousin who would probably never be able to enjoy a TTRPG game where there are people who burned to death in a fire, because of his childhood traumatic experience with one. (I always tried to be kind to him during the few family reunions where we met. He was a quiet and reclusive boy.) Him saying "I don't want to see horrible burn victims" would not, in ANY way, be some horrific violation of others' rights or preferences.

So. Where does this bogeyman hide? How likely are such issues? Will there actually be more issues with than without the use of some of these tools? Not all tools are valid or appropriate for all contexts, of course, and it's entirely valid to find some or even several to not be to your taste (as noted, I find "consent forms" stuffy and ineffectual). But to dismiss all of them with a mere "well it's possible for someone to abuse this, therefore it shouldn't be used" is unacceptable. Unless you're now suddenly okay with the argument that absolute DM authority shouldn't be used because it is possible for bad-faith DMs to abuse it?