mamba
Hero
That is Orwellian NewspeakFocus on the aspect of the fight you can win. Make the 1.2 OGL excellent. The fight over the 1.0a is already over.
That is Orwellian NewspeakFocus on the aspect of the fight you can win. Make the 1.2 OGL excellent. The fight over the 1.0a is already over.
Oh, yes, because that's totally the same.Do as I say, not as I do?
Your conclusions are asinine at best.Which is fine. As long as you don't support the game in any way and don't bring new players into the hobby and don't buy any licensed or supporting material like dice and miniatures. Or replacements for damaged books. Or visiting their websites. Even buying 3PP for the game is effectively advertising the game by proxy. Oh, and of course don't raise brand awareness by talking about it online.
Oops. Too late.
No, not really. I'm not giving them money, that's what it's all about.Regardless, it's deeply hypocritical to boycott a company while still using their products.
Only responding to the survey isn't enough, though. WotC needs pressure on them from other angles as well.Responding to the survey will bring future change. This is where "not accepting it" ends.
That is Orwellian Newspeak
A free account can be cancelled. But anyone that has bought any books might be less likely to cancel.That is an old number, no idea what happened since though. We will see who will be back, we will see whether more leave, this is still a developing story. Not cancelling a free account is also not a strong indication that you are in agreement with WotC. I basically have mine for the playtest and the free monster manuals for example.
Yes. It would. And if we'd been coordinating and actually working on the issue here instead of kvetching, we could have outlined a half-dozen key points and all posted them to the survey in an organized fashion. We could have identified more problems in the license beyond "deauthorizing."by who? and How do you define 'actual feedback'. You fill out the survey, that will be the actual feedback.
I haven't posted here in over a year and returned explicitly to call out the leaks are horrible and atrocious. To add my voice to the angry calls for WotC to do something, as I cancelled my DDB subscription and also planned to delist my DMsGuild products should WotC not favorably respond.Don't think you ever cared, and I certainly can decide for myself what I am ok with and what not. What I do not need is people bending over backwards to please WotC, and you are very close to that.
Yes and no. The alternative market is nice, but the numbers are too small to support many 3PP. Even Pathfinder 2 doesn't have the player numbers for many 3PP.A strong market of alternative RPGs also helps 3PPs. I do not have to stick to WotC for that. In fact at this time I prefer not to just out of principle, so am definitely looking at what is happening with ORC.
Sounds like an end to 3rd Party Products to me, as they can no longer sell enough copies to offset expenses.per edition, but more importantly it will hit WotC fully, because they will not be making money off the other four. Sounds like the perfect outcome to me
Maybe.The ORC is fixing that
"Someone disagrees with me! They must be fascist!"That is Orwellian Newspeak
Yes. Because WotC is significantly larger and even less likely to notice a small PDF of races.are you sure that would be the same outcome if it happened today?
It was both. D&D shed players and there was fewer people coming in. The hobby was aging and dying.that was because D&D is such a large part of it, not because the others shrank...
Or held up by pro-OGL 1.0 voices inside the organization as emphatic votes against any change, lending greater weight to their arguments. You don't know. I don't know. We don't know.Instead, the responses from posters here will be a handful of "keep the OGL 1.0s" results that will be discarded.
Why do you have the urge to tell everyone what they should do, including how they should protest what you want them to do in the first place...It's not really a "boycott" if you're still playing the game and attracting new players to that game.
That's like boycotting McDonalds but still eating at the restaurant if someone else pays.
I’m pretty sure that while @FormerLurker doesn’t know, they’re very afraid that it may have an effect, and they really don’t seem to want that.Or held up by pro-OGL 1.0 voices inside the organization as emphatic votes against any change, lending greater weight to their arguments. You don't know. I don't know. We don't know.
just like the local pusher handing out the first hit, and much with the same goal
because they have such a hard time doing that today...Which is probably why they want to push the 1.2 OGL so hard. They want to be this family friendly game that attracts young teens to the game, and don't want that jeopardized by offensive or needlessly adult products with "D&D compatible" slapped on the front.
Don't hold your breath for an effect...I’m pretty sure that while @FormerLurker doesn’t know, they’re very afraid that it may have an effect, and they really don’t seem to want that.
Go back to lurking.Don't hold your breath for an effect...
I'd love for the OGL 1.0a to stay. But wishes don't accomplish anything.
How's the weather like in Renton?Don't hold your breath for an effect...
I'd love for the OGL 1.0a to stay. But wishes don't accomplish anything.
I dunno. Because it would be nice if everyone did something productive? If we all worked to make a difference instead of infighting? If instead of meaningless gestures that WotC won't notice we focused on the issues we actually could influence. Because all the most passionate people here are just sitting around in verbal circle jerk wasting everyone's time?Why do you have the urge to tell everyone what they should do, including how they should protest what you want them to do in the first place...
Everyone is free to boycott however they feel like. If a table continues to play 5e and buy 3pp books but nothing from WotC, that does the import part, it cuts WotC off. If they move to another game instead, even better, but they are allies either way. The only ones who are not are guys like you who say we have to swallow whatever WotC is dishing out for some greater good that seems to boils down to WotC's profit when you take a closer look.
agreed, but that is outside anyone's control but WotC'sThe problem with the ORC is that we can't get orphaned works out of the old OGC commons without WotC being involved. It would have to be done through the ORC being an "update" to the OGL, which is a power that WotC actually holds.
If WotC transferred their copyright and their right to update the OGL over to this non-profit foundation that's being set up for the purpose (or an existing foundation that can be trusted to serve as a custodian), that would probably be the best solution.
DoneGo back to lurking.
You're free to leave this conversation if you think it's a waste of your time.I dunno. Because it would be nice if everyone did something productive? If we all worked to make a difference instead of infighting? If instead of meaningless gestures that WotC won't notice we focused on the issues we actually could influence. Because all the most passionate people here are just sitting around in verbal circle jerk wasting everyone's time?
sounds like no one knows whether the 50k is cancelling the subscriptions or having their account deleted, and even if we knew that, we still would not know what the other number is, let alone what both numbers are by now, they could easily have doubled or tripled, the story certainly kept on spreading. So all of this 'math' of yours is pointless.A free account can be cancelled. But anyone that has bought any books might be less likely to cancel.
And, really, if it includes free accounts and non-subscribers that actually makes the 50k figure less impressive, as it draws from the pool of 10 million-plus users and not the much smaller pool of subscribers. And cancelling a free account means WotC hasn't lost any money.
not sure who the 'we' here is, but this is what the people here have been doing, did not see you ever contributing to that discussion though... so 'we' were doing it, while you told us how futile it isYes. It would. And if we'd been coordinating and actually working on the issue here instead of kvetching, we could have outlined a half-dozen key points and all posted them to the survey in an organized fashion. We could have identified more problems in the license beyond "deauthorizing."
because they besmirch WotC's good image, no doubtI haven't posted here in over a year and returned explicitly to call out the leaks are horrible and atrocious.
looks more like happily embracing from where I standNow, I'm grimly accepting things.
we do not have 'good' yetI don't want to let the perfect get in the way of the good.
yeah, but your math is off. Do one KS for all systems (minus WotC's), 90% of the stuff can stay the same, and the monsters and items you do for each in a separate booklet, or just include them all. Plenty of material is not released for a single game already. This approach would increase, WotC is out in the cold, sounds like a great outcome to meSounds like an end to 3rd Party Products to me, as they can no longer sell enough copies to offset expenses.
For example, Kobold Press' Wastes of Chaos Kickstarter: Wastes of Chaos: Enter the 5E Borderlands
$212,559 pledged of $50,000 goal. If it was for a system with a quarter as many players, that'd be a quarter of as many backers,