Ogres As Characters
- Thread starter Larcen
- Start date
Tilla the Hun (work)
First Post
Larcen said:
If you are going that route, you might as well be a h-orc or orc (if you really must have the monstrous race)...
Your chances of getting an enlarge access are mildly better as a h-orc (slightly more acceptable as a non-evil entity
)In fact, I'd recommend a sorc/barbarian concept... Sorc 1 will give you enlarge 4x/day + cha bonus
Along with True Strike and a couple of others.Barb3/Sorc1 will work nicely - your barb won't want to wear much armor anyway, and gains a few nifty boost spells
jgsugden
Legend
I *strongly* advise against using creatures with a LA greater than +1.
When you do so, you are effectively trading in hit dice for extra special abilities like reach, increased strength, spell-like abilities, etc ...
The game was *not* designed for many of these abilities to be in the hands of PCs. Placing them in PC hands makes the characters far too offensively powerful. They tend to make quick work of 'balanced' foes for their ECL.
The presence of extra bilities is not the only problem. The 'cost' of these extra abilities is reduced hit dice. The reduced hit dice leads to more situations where your PC dies.
As a result, the character with a high LA ends up being too effective while alive and also ends up dying a disproportionately large number of times. When the DM responds to this situation by placing foes in front of you that are not as likely to kill your low hit point character, you either end up facing wimpy and boring foes or you end up getting all the advantages at a reduced cost.
And, eventually, at high levels, if you ever make it there, your 'cost' for being an ogre is effectively smaller, so you again gain the benefits without the cost.
The result: Other PCs get frustrated that your PC gets to do all the cool stuff and you get frustrated that your PC spends so much time dead. The game works far better when you use traditional classes and traditional races - as the designers intended.
PCs with ECLs, IMHO, should only be used in a party where every PC has the same LA and ECL. A party of ogres can be fun for everyone, but a party with one ogre and three normal PCs is just a pain in the rear.
When you do so, you are effectively trading in hit dice for extra special abilities like reach, increased strength, spell-like abilities, etc ...
The game was *not* designed for many of these abilities to be in the hands of PCs. Placing them in PC hands makes the characters far too offensively powerful. They tend to make quick work of 'balanced' foes for their ECL.
The presence of extra bilities is not the only problem. The 'cost' of these extra abilities is reduced hit dice. The reduced hit dice leads to more situations where your PC dies.
As a result, the character with a high LA ends up being too effective while alive and also ends up dying a disproportionately large number of times. When the DM responds to this situation by placing foes in front of you that are not as likely to kill your low hit point character, you either end up facing wimpy and boring foes or you end up getting all the advantages at a reduced cost.
And, eventually, at high levels, if you ever make it there, your 'cost' for being an ogre is effectively smaller, so you again gain the benefits without the cost.
The result: Other PCs get frustrated that your PC gets to do all the cool stuff and you get frustrated that your PC spends so much time dead. The game works far better when you use traditional classes and traditional races - as the designers intended.
PCs with ECLs, IMHO, should only be used in a party where every PC has the same LA and ECL. A party of ogres can be fun for everyone, but a party with one ogre and three normal PCs is just a pain in the rear.
Sir Whiskers
First Post
Larcen said:AH!! Now that makes sense. Thanks guys. Sorry, I do not have Savage Species. They COULD have made it clearer by writing "Total level adjustment +6", not +2
However, since this is only going to be a 4th level character, that effectivetly shuts me out of being an ogre.
Anybody want to suggest another monstrous barbarian idea that might work? I DO eventually want this guy to be a Dragon Disciple. I am going for REACH and high STR bonuses here...
If you want to min/max, go for orc. No LA adjustment, with the following traits:
+4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60 ft.
Light Sensitivity: orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Favored class: Barbarian
Note, dazzled just gives a -1 penalty to all attacks, but the higher Strength scored counters this (and you won't always be in bright sunlight).
BTW: if you want reach, make friends with a sorcerer or wizard with a wand of enlarge. Quick and easy, with no LA.
Last edited:
DM_Matt
First Post
DEFINATELY Half-Orge....here is the comparison with reg ogre...
Ogre Ogre/2
------- ----------
Stats: +10 Str, –2 Dex, +4 Con, –4 Int, –4 Cha +6str, -2Dex, +2Con, -2Int, -2cha
Size: Large Large
Speed: 40 30
Sight: Darkvision 60 Darkvision 60
Levels: 4 Giant None required, class levels are better
Profs: Free simple and martial prof None
NAmror: +5 +4
ECL: LA+2+4HD LA+1
So you trade the need to take 4 levels of giant (which suck compared ot class levels) and one ECL (-1 level of anytihng effectively), for a slightly toned-down ogre with less extreme stat bonuses and penalties (although the stats are the same in total and DDs actually need mental stats for spells, so its important not to let them go too low) and one point of natural armor.
I've played a half-ogre fighter/barb levels 4-9...they rock.
Ogre Ogre/2
------- ----------
Stats: +10 Str, –2 Dex, +4 Con, –4 Int, –4 Cha +6str, -2Dex, +2Con, -2Int, -2cha
Size: Large Large
Speed: 40 30
Sight: Darkvision 60 Darkvision 60
Levels: 4 Giant None required, class levels are better
Profs: Free simple and martial prof None
NAmror: +5 +4
ECL: LA+2+4HD LA+1
So you trade the need to take 4 levels of giant (which suck compared ot class levels) and one ECL (-1 level of anytihng effectively), for a slightly toned-down ogre with less extreme stat bonuses and penalties (although the stats are the same in total and DDs actually need mental stats for spells, so its important not to let them go too low) and one point of natural armor.
I've played a half-ogre fighter/barb levels 4-9...they rock.
Last edited:
Larcen
Explorer
Lots of great ideas, thanks guys.
I really like the 1 level of sorcerer idea so I am not reliant on anyone for my Enlarges. Plus True Strike and Shield never hurt either.
Half-ogre sounds great! If my DM allows it. See next paragraph...
jgsugden, I hear you. In fact, I just sent this thread to my DM so he can see all the options and implications of all this.
I really like the 1 level of sorcerer idea so I am not reliant on anyone for my Enlarges. Plus True Strike and Shield never hurt either.
Half-ogre sounds great! If my DM allows it. See next paragraph...
jgsugden, I hear you. In fact, I just sent this thread to my DM so he can see all the options and implications of all this.
Sir Whiskers
First Post
DM_Matt said:
The reason I didn't recommend half-ogre is that every GM I've shown it to agrees that it's very unbalanced. DM_Matt's comparison should show you why.
I personally would allow one only for a one-shot adventure, but not a campaign.
No, his comparison shows that the full ogre sucks for a normal party. You dont get enough bang for the buck.
The halfogre template has been argued back and forth with people on both sides. I have seen it in action and it seems fine, strong yes, but penalties galore as well.
Whatever you believe, on either side, isnt a huge issue though. (that is a you to most everyone here) It is only what his dm thinks. Hopefully he'll be able to make a balanced determination for his campaign rather than a harsh, jump to the throat, that many have done about this template and all sorts of other things in d&d.
The halfogre template has been argued back and forth with people on both sides. I have seen it in action and it seems fine, strong yes, but penalties galore as well.
Whatever you believe, on either side, isnt a huge issue though. (that is a you to most everyone here) It is only what his dm thinks. Hopefully he'll be able to make a balanced determination for his campaign rather than a harsh, jump to the throat, that many have done about this template and all sorts of other things in d&d.
Similar Threads
