Oh noes .. more Daggermaster cheese? (Warlock)

[Danceofmasks]

I was looking into making a stealth Warlock, and thought Halfling would be a good choice.
Then I figured I don't really need Int that badly .. and making Dex secondary wouldn't be so bad ...
Then I looked into MC Rogue, 'cos since I have Dex anyway ... might as well deal with the traps as well (plus, pickpocketing could be interesting as a stealth warlock).

Reading Daggermaster, they score crits with daggers on 18-20 ..
Erm ... my pact blade just so happens to be a dagger, and the ability doesn't say I have to deal damage with the dagger or anything, I just so happen to be using the dagger as an implement.

It sure looks ok to me ... to AoE crit on 18s with a dagger pact blade ...

 

[small pumpkin man]

I believe that won't work because you're using it as an implement, not a weapon. Like "To the Nine Hells with You" Doesn't gain the high crit property just because the implement you use to cast it happens to be an axe(which is a holy avenger).

 

[Danceofmasks]

Because axe mastery says ... "melee attack?"
Daggermaster says nothing of the sort.

 

[Zurai]

Yeah, looks like it works RAW to me. It just says "with a dagger" and if your Pact Blade is a dagger and you use it as an implement, you are attacking with the dagger. RAI, I'm pretty sure it's only supposed to be for Weapon powers, not Weapon and Implement powers.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well sure .. being a Rogue PP and all .. the intent was obviously for weapon powers.
But upon reading it, I couldn't help face-palming.

 

[FadedC]

My understanding is that your only considered to be using a dagger if you use a power with the weapon keyword. Anything else and your using an implement that happens to be shaped like a dagger.

But I grant this is not explicitly spelled out and that others might disagree. The intent seems obvious though.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Because axe mastery says ... "melee attack?"
Daggermaster says nothing of the sort.

Yes, but Deadly Axe (which I was fairly obviously refering to) says nothing of the sort. Weapon focus doesn't either, and that works with non-magical staves.

Of course right now I can't find the RAW which says you can't do these things, so some or all of these could be doable.

 

[Ginnel]

Yeah, looks like it works RAW to me. It just says "with a dagger" and if your Pact Blade is a dagger and you use it as an implement, you are attacking with the dagger. RAI, I'm pretty sure it's only supposed to be for Weapon powers, not Weapon and Implement powers.

Where with a spell do you attack with your weapon or implement or implement/weapon, seems to me your holding it as a focus for sure but not actually attacking with it, your attacking with your magic, the spell not the actual implement/weapon

 

[Zurai]

Where with a spell do you attack with your weapon or implement or implement/weapon, your holding it as a focus for sure but you sure ain't attacking with it, your attacking with your magic, the spell not the actual implement/weapon

Daggermaster doesn't say "attack with a dagger". It just says "You score critical hits with a dagger on a roll of 18-20". And, anyway, you ARE using the dagger to attack with - that's what an Implement is.

 

[Snotboy]

Score critical hits with your warlock spells on an 18-20? That sounds too good to be true. Which means that it probably is.