D&D 5E Ok I have to ask..... what's with the Paladin hate on here?

Magistus71 · Dec 31, 2017

Tinker said:
Can't speak for this forum, or indeed how paladins are in 5e, but fwiw:

As a DM and armchair game designer, paladins trigger my itch to fix the system, because they're kinda cool but restricted to one alignment, and in many published versions quite a specific way of playing that alignment and a general attitude. I always want to create Holy Warriors for other alignments and philosophies.

I know several players (the kind who 'usually play Chaotic Neutral' who dislike do-gooding Boy Scout types, especially those they have to share a party with who cramp their style. Paladins have 'do-gooding Boy Scout' tattooed on their foreheads, in many groups.

Paladins in 5e are not restricted to the Lawful Good alignment any longer, they can be any alignment they like. Though I have seen a lot of people still making LG paladins, because this is how it used to be, and some GM;s still make it this way in their worlds.

Satyrn · Dec 31, 2017

Mistwell said:
I was more thinking he'd ride a mastiff!

That's actually a picture that @Oofta photoshopped - adding in the second rapier and the owl - to help me illustrate my mastiff-riding dual-wielding battlemaster.

He added the halo to tease lowkey.

. . . and when I showed my table the picture I learned they all picture my fighter as a grubby, dirt munching garden gnome.

ArchfiendBobbie · Dec 31, 2017

Satyrn said:
That's actually a picture that @Oofta photoshopped - adding in the second rapier and the owl - to help me illustrate my mastiff-riding dual-wielding battlemaster.

He added the halo to tease lowkey.

. . . and when I showed my table the picture I learned they all picture my fighter as a grubby, dirt munching garden gnome.

Garden gnome like the ones in this video?

pming · Dec 31, 2017

Hiya!

I have no idea if/why people hate paladins. They are one of my 2 tied-for-first classes if I ever get to play. (Paladin and Magic-User...or "Wizard" in 5e parlance). I like the challenge...RP for Paladin, and "try-not-to-die" for the Wizard.

I've found that people who report to 'dislike' Paladins are the same type of people who dislike "level limits", "class/race limits" and who insist that Alignment is based on the PC/NPC's point of view. Not sure why that is, but I'd guess it's just a result of being brought up some particular way (actual Player).

I've DM'ed players way back in 1e who brought in their paladins from other games. Usually they end up making a new character after about 20 minutes of play due to them basically being Lawful Evil and me saying "POOF! You are now a Fighter". I'd get arguments, then I'd explain, then they'd "get it". Then they'd make a new PC...but not a paladin. They played a paladin for the power, and they used that power to lord it over everyone else...PC or NPC. Once they realized that they couldn't just kill random people on the street who detected as evil (or that even trying to detect evil on everyone they meet was Chaotic), they quit playing Paladins. Sure enough, their new PC would usually be a CN or TN Fighter, or maybe Cleric. Funny thing is...they'd play these new PC's just like they were trying to play their Paladin. Huh. Go figure?

I love paladins! I really enjoy playing the LG or NG characters. Hell, I recently played a Lawful Thief in BECMI (sort of a "DM-PC", because we are going to trade of DM'ing every couple months). He died,

, but he was fun to 'play'.

As it stands...I'm not nearly as keen on 5e paladins. They don't seem "paladin'ey" enough. They seem like "magical fighters". Probably because of the archtypes that are not 'LG'. I would have rather WotC called them "Holy Warriors" in 5e, and then made "Paladin" a separate class that had all the normal 1e 'trappings' (LG, Limited magic items, etc). But that's me, and I'm a die-hard 1e/HM'er.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Satyrn · Dec 31, 2017

ArchfiendBobbie said:
Garden gnome like the ones in this video?

I can't see the video. It's not available in Canada apparently.

CTurbo · Dec 31, 2017

Well I like the 5e BECAUSE they're so strong, and no longer have the alignment restrictions, but I do think the smite should be tweaked a little. I do NOT like when smite is spammed to death. I obviously would never play that way in a normal campaign.

My brother in law hates the 5e Pally because of the Auras. Our campaign's BBEG was en evil Wizard and my 20 Char Pally would bless the entire party. With a 1d4+5 to all saves, AND resistance to spell damage, he really wrecked most of the encounters. Our party Sorcerer just followed him around and pretty much always stood behind him during combat haha. I can see how the "hug the Paladin" game could be really frustrating for DMs.

Oofta · Dec 31, 2017

Mistwell said:
I was more thinking he'd ride a mastiff!

Like this?

P.S. I have a long honey-do list today, so this is the best I can do with minimal time.

corwyn77 · Dec 31, 2017

Oofta said:
I enjoy playing/running for paladins, but there are times they seem to fall into the "extreme characterization" category of "I'm a paladin, therefore I'm a lawful ~~stupid~~ good stick in the mud." Think Buzz Lightyear without any redeeming qualities dictating what everyone in the group can and cannot do.

This is similar to the guy that plays the Chaotic Neutral rogue that's actually insane and will decide to stab his party member in the back in the middle of combat or helps the bad guys escape* "just to see what happens". Personally I find them more annoying (as a DM and player) but there's no simple label to throw on them.

*Yes, I've had that guy at my table.

Yeah, so have I. The only player we have actually kicked from Encounters.

1) In a campaign opener in 4e, there was a big fight against a low-level solo dragon. The entire fight he went from house to house looking for loot.

2) The big one - during the finale for that campaign, the BBEG made her big boiler-plating, join me or die speech, he joined her and started attacking PCs. He didn't last long and, in an environment meant for fostering new players, we felt he was too toxic for our public drop-in games.

Mistwell · Dec 31, 2017

Satyrn said:
It's really just a long-running joke started by [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] - he really does seem to hate paladins. I think after some of us teased him about it, it became a more widely used gag.

You will also see the same effect spreading from lowkey's hate of gnomes and rapiers to a lesser extent.