Okay so you hate Dragonlance, how can the current designers improve it?

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

How can Dragonlance be more appealing to you guys, while still keeping it Dragonlance?

For me, I don't think you can. While I do buy the d20 books to mine the great stuff from for my homebrew, Dragonlance just wouldn't be Dragonlance without Kender, Tinker Gnomes, etc. All those things that make Dragonlance different just plain don't appeal to me, and without them...well, without them, why not just play FR or Greyhawk or my homebrew?

 

[Kanegrundar]

The setting may be fresh now, but a lot of what has drawn gamers to DL over the years is the rich history. There may be very little metaplot now, but all that's left is a standard fantasy setting that has little to grab new players' attention. Take a look at some of the new settings coming out. IK, Black Company, Conan, and Eberron isn't standard fantasy. Talislanta (while not a new setting, but it is new to D20 and will be new to many gamers) isn't standard fantasy either. These worlds have something new and interesting than just the same old world filled with sterotypical dwarves, elves, and monsters. Dl would have to reinvent itself again, which it one of the problems I've had with the novels, so I don't really think that would be a good idea.

DL is selling well, but I don't think there's much that can be done to really draw in new people without turning off the one's that are already fans.

Kane

 

[beaver1024]

I loved the old DL but the setting is getting dated with quite a number of internal consistency problems. I bought the DLCS and Age of Mortals and I stopped buying.

One of the most jaring aspects of D20 DL is the retconning of the structure of the gods and magic. The introduction of Chaos in Dragons of Summer Flame and the subsequent 5th age materials took away what was really fun about DL and just made it an ordinary generic fantasy setting.

Setting wise they need to resolve internal consistency problems with high sorcery vs renegades vs sorcerers. The air of tension that they started with wizards vs sorcerers is great but the setting explanation on why their magic is different is incomplete. It also doesn't help the attitude of the main proponents in the struggle change their minds about the other side with each source book released (eg the gods of magic's position on ambient magic).

It seems to me that that the great new storylines started by the War of Souls isn't being followed through. In my mind I would imagine that the return of the gods shouldn't be as smooth as it is now. SVP should play up all the moral quandries this would bring. I would love to see cabals of WoHS wizards questioning whether they're really wizards or clerics. Or rebellious anti-gods Solamnic Knights taking arms against the followers of the so called return gods.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Heh, I still find that its a cool enough setting after houseruling that the official "gods" aren't really gods and the metallic dragons only pretend to be good....

Heh. Seems there's several of us non-canon types out there. While my metallic dragons are still good and chromatic dragons are evil they don't have to stay that way. Good dragons can become evil chromatics and vice versa. Mwah-ha-ha! Of course, that's because Sargonnis is Paladine and vice versa. I still block planar travel though; it helps with my meta-plot.

From the sound of it, those of us who meddle with DL are fine with the overall story but want to tweak the setting. We're a small minority. The hate-its have either had most of their issues resolved (i.e. rail-roading) or will never have them resolved (kender-haters.) It'll take a leap of faith by the former to find that out and the latter are never going to jump on board. Other than continuing to garner fan support there's nothing you can do to encourage people to take a leap of faith.

 

[Ranger REG]

Is "railroading" more prominent in just DL campaign setting alone?

Maybe we need a DM book that teaches how to railroad a campaign without letting the players know, especially when it has to do with prophecies-type, event-driven, story-based adventures.

 

[Ibram]

Though I wouldnt say I "Hated" DL its just not the setting for me. Nothing they could do can change that, except completly reworking the setting (at which point it wouldnt be DL anymore anyway).

 

[DragonLancer]

Is "railroading" more prominent in just DL campaign setting alone?

Nope. The only time that DL was railroady was in the original module series. The setting bu itself isn't at all. Some people think that the novels add to that aspect when they don't. All the novels do is tell a story about X characters. What your characters do is just as important to the setting they just don't get novels written about them.

Maybe we need a DM book that teaches how to railroad a campaign without letting the players know, especially when it has to do with prophecies-type, event-driven, story-based adventures.

Oh dear Lord, no thankyou. Not even in jest.

 

[MetalBard]

The way Dragonlance is written there is no room for heroes to make their mark. All the big events are reserved for the novels or the NPCs. That is the major problem with Dragonlance. I like playing it now because we have DM who's going a little off the beaten path and the new d20 books partially rectify the above problem.

Other problem - Kender and all other sterotype races in Dragonlance. In order to be of good alignment you have to let Kender get away with theft. I've never understood why a group would keep a Kender around. They are the worst character race ever imagined because they create too much useless in-party conflict or aggravation.

Tinker gnomes are alright, but they have a problem that Kender have as well. Every single Kender or Tinker Gnome acts exactly like every other one.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The way Dragonlance is written there is no room for heroes to make their mark. All the big events are reserved for the novels or the NPCs. That is the major problem with Dragonlance.

No, that is the major problem faced by people who can't come up with their own storyline ideas. That's like saying nothing significant can happen in the FR or GH until a novel is written about it. Our campaign has never had a problem with the PCs being the heroes of prominence.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Tinker gnomes are alright, but they have a problem that Kender have as well. Every single Kender or Tinker Gnome acts exactly like every other one.

We dealt with that a few different ways IMC. First, the "stereotype" is for the 1st level "teenager" equivalent of the race. They are immature and haven't really come into their own right as individuals. By the same token elves are flighty but snooty, dwarves are gruff and snooty ("if it's nae dwarven, it's crap!"), and humans are almost completely unpredictable and emotional.

After a bit of aging each of them settles down and only reverts to that mode when stressed, excited, or immersed in their native culture. Kender still have problems with shiny things sticking to their hands but put stuff back when they realize they've got it. Gnomes speak like rational creatures and don't try to add rocket-powered rollerskates to horses except when bored. Elves can not look down on people and dwarves can make friends.

Lastly, variant cultures. The races aren't the same in all parts of the world. The DLA is highly focused on Solamnia. Pick up the the Taladas "Time of the Dragon" box set or PDF from RPGNow and see the paranoid kender, functional gnomes, and shamanic elves. A little cultural cross-polination can do a world of good.