Okay, where do you stand on diagonal movement?

What is your preferred system for diagnonal movement?

  • 1-1-1-1 (as per D&D 4th Edition)

    Votes: 206 47.4%
  • 1-2-1-2 (as per D&D 3rd Edition)

    Votes: 122 28.0%
  • 2-2-2-2 (as per Star Wars Saga Edition)

    Votes: 9 2.1%
  • 1-2-2-2 (as suggested by some ENWorld posters)

    Votes: 9 2.1%
  • Bypass the whole issue by using a hex grid, or no grid at all

    Votes: 70 16.1%
  • Other (please specify below)

    Votes: 19 4.4%

  • Poll closed .
In terms of gameplay, the most important two distances are 1) the shortest distance around a particular space (i.e., traveling along the spaces adjacent to that space), and 2) the distance to each adjacent space. The most intuitive, consistent conception of these distances begins with the idea that "around" something means, on average, "in a circle." In accordance with that idea, two key criteria arise: 1) that the shortest distance around a particular space should be consistent no matter which adjacent space you begin in, and 2) that the distance to each adjacent space should be 1.

Of all the systems listed above, only two of them meet both criteria. Those are the hex-based system and the 1-2-2-2 based system (although in the latter case, it's only so far as the "circle" encompasses only 1 square.)

Two of the systems fail to meet the first criterion. These are 1-1-1-1 and 1-2-1-2. In these three systems, it is harder to encircle an enemy if you start in a diagonally adjacent space than if you start in a non-diagonally adjacent space.

For example, in 1-1-1-1, it costs at least 5 squares to encircle an enemy when starting on a non-diagonally adjacent square and only 4 squares to encircle the enemy when starting on a diagonally adjacent square. Whatever people may think about some of the other 1-1-1-1 distortions, this is a distortion of the distance that matters the most out of all distances in gameplay. But it happens in 1-2-1-2 as well! It requires at least 7 squares when starting on a non-diagonally adjacent square, but only 6 squares when starting on a diagonally adjacent squares.

The 2-2-2-2 system does meet the first criterion, because it always takes 8 squares to move around the enemy. However, this system fails to meet the second criterion. (Incidentally, with 1-1-1-1 the problem is reversed. 1-1-1-1 meets the second criterion, but not the first.)

This leaves the hex-based system and the 1-2-2-2 system.

The 1-2-2-2 system, however, fails the first criteria if it is extended to beyond just the most immediate squares. Even if we let that slide, it is fair to bring other criteria into play now that there are only two systems left. The 1-2-2-2 system, for instance, requires inconsistent counting, which is certainly a heavy mark against it.

The hex-based system is somewhat unintuitive when it comes to drawing rectangular rooms (though such rooms can be consistently drawn, in addition to many other shapes of rooms, by putting intersections at the midpoints instead of the vertices). However, this sort of evaluation does not affect gameplay in any case. Just as one can imagine a firecube to be a fireball, one can imagine a hexagon to be a square.

Without practice using a hex-based system, it could be unintuitive for use with creatures larger than Large. However, by the time such creatures come into play, the DM will have had practice with the system. But even more importantly, this is where consistency in my two prime criteria becomes very beneficial: the DM can simply move the creature where it looks like the right position/distance, and there is a good chance that will be correct, or at least within an error less than that of other systems.

Thus, it seems that the hex-based system may actually be the most intuitive of all the systems when it comes to what matters most across all of them, on average.
 
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I don't want to think about the number of times I or one of my players missed a diagonal, or lost track of whether the next step was 5ft or 10ft (a common occurence in a double move with horizontal and diagonal movement mixed).

I've only played a little SW Saga, but the 2 square movement on every diagonal seems to slow characters down a lot.

I think the 1-1-1-1 counting will work just fine for my group when we switch to 4E.
 

jeffh said:
It's not a terrible idea, it's just hard to see why someone would prefer it over all of options 1, 2 and 5 (as opposed to just liking it better than one or another of those). I can see it being a lot of people's second choice but very few people's first.
Depends on priorities I guess. If you want as little book keeping as 1-1-1-1 and 2-2-2-2, but can't stand the resulting square bursts and diamond movements, then 1-2-2-2... is a simple compromise.
 

I am surprised to not find myself hating 1-1-1-1 after trying it out in skirmish. I thought I would never get used to it, but it actually took me all of about one tournament. I think it will be fine for RPG too.
 


Quote:
Originally Posted by MerakSpielman
For distance and movement rates, we're using the "just eyeball it," "eh, close enough" and "if it lets something cool happen, they can get there" systems.


cr0m said:
What happens when people disagree about what's cool? :]

I'd imagine the DM gets final say about what's cool! Sounds good to me!
 

If both sides in the battle are using the same system it makes no difference. All the systems proposed are not in any way accurate. To be accurate you would need a measurer and some Newtonian physics laws of motion.

1-1-1-1 is easier and barely less accurate than the rest. I always thought all the other systems were an unneeded anal pain in the backside.

1-1-1-1 all the way.
 

Why not hexes?

After reading this and a few other threads on the 1-1-1-1 debate, my only question is:

Why not hexes?

With hexes, you can use 1-1-1-1 with no problem, and can have organically shaped effects, (i.e., no firecube spells).

The downsides, as far as I can see them:

  • You can only surround a hex with 6 medium-sized figures, as opposed to 8 when using a grid. (I rarely play with a group larger than six, so its not really an issue, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe DMs might not like their kobold swarms getting only +6 to hit, instead of +8?)

  • The half-hex issue, (or 1/4 hex, or less), when creating a space bounded by flat walls or other barriers. But I guess I would just rule that if there's a half a hex or more, you can stand there, and if there's less, you can't.

I get the feeling I'm missing a bigger issue or two, though...
 


If I'm DMing: My first preference is no grid at all. If I have to use a grid (for a large or complicated battle), then I'll use hexes or 1-1-1-1.

If I'm not DMing: I'll go with whatever the DM wants.
 

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