Old player gets new insight into D&D from ToEE PC Game

[John_Daker]

Hi All!

I've not played 3.5E but 15 years ago I used to play 1E (and did so for years). What I've picked up from the new edition is mainly from forums (like this one), the SRD and the PC game ToEE.

Now, my reason for breaking silence (!) is that in playing the PC game, I seem to spend a huge amount of time (even with a cleric), resting for either healing or spells.

The course of events seems to be that after a mere 2 or 3 encounters this becomes essential.

Now I know 15 years is a long time but I don't remember the game being so halting or stuttering in the past.

Why is that and is it true when 3.5E is roleplayed with friends?

I realise this could be just because I'm rubbish with the PC game but would welcome insights from others!

 

[Flyspeck23]

Don't worry about it.
ToEE is on the challenging side of CRs - therefore you'll need so much resting. The "real" D&D shouldn't be like that.

 

[Seravin]

Hi All!

I've not played 3.5E but 15 years ago I used to play 1E (and did so for years). What I've picked up from the new edition is mainly from forums (like this one), the SRD and the PC game ToEE.

Now, my reason for breaking silence (!) is that in playing the PC game, I seem to spend a huge amount of time (even with a cleric), resting for either healing or spells.

The course of events seems to be that after a mere 2 or 3 encounters this becomes essential.

Now I know 15 years is a long time but I don't remember the game being so halting or stuttering in the past.

Why is that and is it true when 3.5E is roleplayed with friends?

I realise this could be just because I'm rubbish with the PC game but would welcome insights from others!

This will probably get moved into the computer/gaming forum, but...

If the game truly uses the 3.x ruleset then the frequent rests are about right.
3rd edition was specifically designed for characters to burn through about 20% of the party's resources on any given encounter that was equal to the party's level. So a party of four 1st level adventurers should be able to take on two orcs about four times in any given day and have a few hit points left over.

ToEE is old school though and the encounters usually involved more critters who may or may not be equivalent to the party's level - so resting more often then every four encounters isn't necessarily a sign of poor playing.

 

[John_Daker]

. . . This will probably get moved into the computer/gaming forum, but . . .

I hope it doesn't get moved as my issue is not really about the PC game. I'm really trying to get a feel for how 3.5E works in practice. It's just that my only experience of the new game is with the PC game.

So if I get this right then if you storm a reasonably populated building with you handful of PCs you'll pretty much be stalled after 3-4 "typical" level encounters?

Is that right? If so, what do people do? Do they constantly rest?

 

[DMScott]

3rd edition is based around the idea that a party of four characters overcoming an encounter appropriate for their level will consume about 20% of their resources in the process. So there's a built-in assumption of about four or five fights before a group needs to rest, less if you're fighting encounters a bit above your level (as many of the TOEE encounters are).

You probably didn't notice it as much in previous editions because encounter difficulties tended to vary across a much wider range. PCs usually needed to kill a lot more critters to level up, so there was more of an inclination to send them up against hordes of weak critters than a few challenging encounters. In 3rd, the EL/CR ratings for monsters combined with the linear experience progression (each level is a little under 14 standard encounters worth of experience) means you more often face at least moderately challenging encounters.

I know for me as a DM, the biggest adjustment I've had to make is pacing adventures so rest stops occur at natural pauses in the action. This was important in previous editions too, but in 3rd there are better guidelines for when that occurs.

 

[John_Daker]

I know for me as a DM, the biggest adjustment I've had to make is pacing adventures so rest stops occur at natural pauses in the action. This was important in previous editions too, but in 3rd there are better guidelines for when that occurs.

Thanks Scott, that was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I'd be grateful if you could give some examples of how you've paced your adventures.

 

[DMScott]

So if I get this right then if you storm a reasonably populated building with you handful of PCs you'll pretty much be stalled after 3-4 "typical" level encounters?

Is that right? If so, what do people do? Do they constantly rest?

Either they constantly rest, or the DM populates the building with a lot of lower CR critters so the group can churn through a lot of them and still be ready for the real bad guys. That's not so different from a 1st or 2nd edition meatgrinder adventure - I ran "The Village of Hommlet" a few times, which had the moathouse from TOEE, and from the dim depths of my fading memory I recall it generally took four or five trips for a group to clear the place.

 

[Mystery Man]

If the game truly uses the 3.x ruleset then the frequent rests are about right.

No way. That game is tough. In "real life" that is my players didn't rest half that much at that level. And at higher levels resting becomes less and less neccessary.

 

[Piratecat]

John, welcome!!

The usual rule that we use is "rest when you can't survive one more encounter." That gives us a little bit of leeway in case we get ambushed. The truth is, I think we rest less than in previous versions of the game; there's more access to healing, and that makes a big difference.

 

[Rel]

I'll also comment that in the course of regular, table-top gaming, assuming that the availability of magic items is somewhere close to what is defined in the core system, the party may well have access to other healing magic. Specifically I'm speaking of Wands.

A Wand of Cure Light Wounds holds 50 charges of that spell and has a market price of only 750 GP. That amount of money becomes relatively trivial at 4th or 5th level if the party is splitting the price among them. If the party has a Wizard that has the Craft Wand feat, the price is cut in half and the availability goes up even more.

That still leaves the issue of party members running low on spells but for Hit Points, they can usually get back most of them if they need to.