[Olympics] We Were Robbed! Part 2

[MythandLore]

Ah, now I understand.
It's all becoming so clear.
I can see clearlly now...
The rain has gone...
I can see all obsticals in my way...

 

[Storm Raven]

This is definately a news item here in Europe (well maybe just France - all the Dutch care about is why thier speedskaters are choking...) as well. In fact here in Paris the story is receiving Top billing ahead of the Slobidan Milosovich trials.

Well, from CNN.Com, here is evidence that some people in figure skating just don't get it:

German ice dancer Kati Winkler said the judges will have to be careful.

"What happened on Monday was wrong because it was so obvious," she said. "Now everyone will be watching what the judges do."

So, it wasn't wrong because of vote-trading, or because of corruption or improper judging. Apparently, it was wrong because they were obvious about their vote-rigging practices. Like I've said before, I expect that the ISU will talk a lot about looking intot he scandal and actually do exactly nothing, figuring that the stupid members of the public can be hoodwinked into thinking figure skating isn't a morass of corruption if they just hide it better.

 

[Tsyr]

I think you're taking that quote a bit wrong, SR.

I think it's more meant to imply that what happened is wrong because there is no question about who the true winner is, and that from now on the judges will have people watching them for similar things.

I think you are attempting to read things into that statement that, IMO, just aren't there. No where in that statement does it imply that rigged judges are ok, or anything of the sort.

 

[Storm Raven]

I think it's more meant to imply that what happened is wrong because there is no question about who the true winner is, and that from now on the judges will have people watching them for similar things.

I think you are attempting to read things into that statement that, IMO, just aren't there. No where in that statement does it imply that rigged judges are ok, or anything of the sort.

Hmm, but that's not what she said. She said that it was wrong because it was so obvious. I'll grant that she might have meant something else, but it is kind of hard to divine what people mean unless we could have access to D&D style mind reading magic.

Put simply, her statement, taken at face value, is that the problem is that the judges got caught. They were so obvious about it. She didn't say "the problem is that the judges appear to have been vote swapping", she doesn't say "the problem is that the judges made a mistake and voted for the wrong couple", she says "the problem is that they were so obvious"

The implication to me is that if they were less obvious everything would be okay, vote-swapping arrangements or no.

 

[Wicht]

I saw that quote and almost posted it here but Storm Raven beat me to it. I gotta agree with him, she says the problem is the judges were too obvious. My immediate take was that she was implying the whole skating community knows there is no fairness to the judging but they expect the judges not to be blatantly corrupt. IMO the whole thing just shows a problem inherent in high stakes international competitions being decided at the whims of nationally biased judges.

I mean, I admit, I want the Americans to win and I figure that sort of patriotism is really hard to factor out of the equation.

 

[Storm Raven]

I saw that quote and almost posted it here but Storm Raven beat me to it. I gotta agree with him, she says the problem is the judges were too obvious. My immediate take was that she was implying the whole skating community knows there is no fairness to the judging but they expect the judges not to be blatantly corrupt. IMO the whole thing just shows a problem inherent in high stakes international competitions being decided at the whims of nationally biased judges.

Now, another problem with the whole set up is this (also from the same article in CNN.Com):

Some skaters feared that judges might now juggle their votes to avoid the appearance of fixing in ice dancing. That might hurt the chances of the favored French couple, Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat.

"I think the judges are in big trouble if the French win," said Alexander Zhulin, who coaches U.S. and Canadian ice dancers and was a silver medalist in 1994. "Because of huge pressure on the Russian federation, they will try not to vote for the French. It's best for everyone if Lithuania will win."

So, in order to make up for allegations of vote-swapping, rigged voting and misjudging the results of the pairs figure skating event, the judges need to mollify everyone by making sure the French don't win? To show you aren't corrupt you need to make sure that you juggle your votes in another event so that the favorites don't win? Rather than fairly judging the participants based on what heppens on the ice, you need to rig the results so a politically pleasing result is achieved? Or something?

Does this logic make sense to anyone outside of the ISU? Is it any wonder why people have problems with the entire concept of subjective sport given that it is subject to this array of open invitations to corruption?

 

[omedon]

I just saw on the television Jamie Salé and David Pelletier will be receivng a gold medal and the Russians will be keeping theirs.

I have to say I am not happy about this decision. I am unhappy about it because it doesn't change anything. Sale' and Pelletier already knew in their hearts that they had earned a gold medal. As it stands the corrupt judging that led to their injustice is still in place. It would have been a much sweeter victory if the ones responsible for the injustice were held acountable.

Now it merely looks as though if you whine enough you will get your way.

 

[Storm Raven]

I have to say I am not happy about this decision. I am unhappy about it because it doesn't change anything. Sale' and Pelletier already knew in their hearts that they had earned a gold medal. As it stands the corrupt judging that led to their injustice is still in place. It would have been a much sweeter victory if the ones responsible for the injustice were held acountable.

I am also unhappy about this. To me, it cheapens the status of the gold medal if you can just hand out another when you messed up the first time.

I know it happened before, and I thought it was a bad idea then too. For those unfamiliar with that situation a synchronized swimmer was given another gold medal when a judge said he had entered his score wrong in the electronic scoring system. Even though it would have meant removing a gold medal from an swimmer from the US, I would havefound the decision to make much more sense to have the person the judge intended to win actually win (and not share a "second" gold medal), and the US swimmer get the silver.

This decision by the IOC/ISU just drags the event futher into the hole it has dug itself by cheapening the gold medal. Now it is certain that someone has a gold medal who didn't actually deserve one as a result of the way they skated. Sure it isn't the Russian skaters' fault, but why should they keep a gold medal if they didn't deserve one in the first place? Why should Sale and Pelletier get a gold medal if they didn't deserve one based on their skating? One or the other pair doesn't deserve a gold medal, but they will both have one, which makes no sense and degrades the value of a gold medal.