D&D 2E On AD&D 2E

[Voadam]

PO:C&T is probably much better as it was the first time we saw the combat round drop to a reasonable 6-15sec versus 1min.

That’s been the default since with combat rounds being 6-10 seconds.

1981 Moldvay B/X Basic rules page B23:

"Time in encounters is measured in rounds of 10 seconds each."

 

[Emerikol]

In my opinion, I enjoy D&D way more when it isn't fitting everything into a core d20 mechanic. Initiative is a good case in point and I agree with lower being better working well (also it isn't terrible complicated to switch to a d10 and go with lower values).

I agree. The swinginess of a d20 is massive. A +4 advantage is not really all that much when in reality one of the most dexterous people in the world should beat an average man most of the time. A d6 would be better then a +4 would be dominating.

 

[PHATsakk43]

I agree. The swinginess of a d20 is massive. A +4 advantage is not really all that much when in reality one of the most dexterous people in the world should beat an average man most of the time. A d6 would be better then a +4 would be dominating.

One of the 2E DMGR splats Creative Campaigning, which is otherwise one of the less useful ones in the series has one exceptional section about how to modify the roll to develop more or less chances of success, such as using the existing 1-20 range of ability score and NWP checks, and instead using flat values and smaller dies to make the check.

For example, a particularly difficult task would be 1d4+16. A task with extremely low probability of failure, sub a 1d12 for the d20. It also gets slightly into the Gaussian distribution of probability to suggest using multiple dice to sub for a single die if neither extreme success or failure is likely, but such a result would be useful from a game standpoint, such as using 2d10 or 5d4 in place of a d20.

Once you get that built into your mindset as a DM, you can use it wherever it makes sense. The main thing is it eliminates the linear aspect of using a straight d20 for all checks. My pre-college stats teenage brain understood this well enough that when I got to actually stats, it greatly helped the latter.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Just basing initiative on Dexterity (or perhaps Intelligence), or making it wholly random and just use situational modifiers, is probably at least as realistic as either the C&T system or the individual initiative system in core 2e.

Here's my thought: We could do the complex interplay of ranged having first go only if knocked and ready, and then reach weapons, and so on. Barring that -- and assuming the combat is a hesitant skirmish* where everyone is jockeying for position or tentatively feinting and pulling back when the don't see an opening -- the person who will act first is the one who successfully determines that now is actually the right** time to move forward. That would be a function of battlefield experience, most likely represented by level (or base to-hit***, if you want to advantage the martial classes).
*in a tunnel fighting scrap where everyone is already in melee right nownownow and the best tactic is to just swing as fast as you can, this might be lessoned.
**right time for creatures who do not fear their enemy's blow can be a problem, and if the D&D characters gamistly know they can survive max damage from their enemy's strike, this could alter things (and berserking creatures as well).
***for 5e, I guess proficiency bonus and then need to give additional pluses to the classes one feels should be going first.

 

[PHATsakk43]

Here's my thought: We could do the complex interplay of ranged having first go only if knocked and ready, and then reach weapons, and so on. Barring that -- and assuming the combat is a hesitant skirmish* where everyone is jockeying for position or tentatively feinting and pulling back when the don't see an opening -- the person who will act first is the one who successfully determines that now is actually the right** time to move forward. That would be a function of battlefield experience, most likely represented by level (or base to-hit***, if you want to advantage the martial classes).
*in a tunnel fighting scrap where everyone is already in melee right nownownow and the best tactic is to just swing as fast as you can, this might be lessoned.
**right time for creatures who do not fear their enemy's blow can be a problem, and if the D&D characters gamistly know they can survive max damage from their enemy's strike, this could alter things (and berserking creatures as well).
***for 5e, I guess proficiency bonus and then need to give additional pluses to the classes one feels should be going first.

Really, AD&D rounds are what they are because of the roots being wargaming.

The gobbledegook of 1E initiative is further predicted on some weird attempt to keep with the war game basis. For anyone who wants to disagree with my assessment of 1E initiative, here is a link to the 20 page flow chart to run each combat round in 1E from A.D.D.I.C.T.

Again this discussion (IIRC) got into initiative because of some peculiarities with the way single-classed fighters with multiple attack routines worked in 1E. Which after looking it up, they go before everyone then after everyone. Which, I suppose does make them somewhat better as they effectively get an automatic first strike. Personally, it seems like a broken mechanic.

After digging back through the 2E PHB & DMG while discussing this, I will note that one place that such a mechanic still is retained in 2E is with bow or crossbow specialists. They are able to fire before anyone else; effectively outside the initiative roll. This is the same as the rule in 1E from what I can tell.

As for a discussion about how initiative went from the TSR “roll every round; announce actions prior to roll” to cyclic initiative that became default in 3E and on, here is a decent blog post.