D&D General On gatekeeping and the 'live-streaming edition wars'

[DemoMonkey]

"Why do you feel the need to make that distinction? Who does it benefit?"

I was kind of thinking it might help me pick what topics to discuss with the person. "What characters do you play?" would be my follow up to a player. "Who do you watch?" would be my question to a streamer. Different flavours of fan will have different interests. If It's considered impolite or actively offensive to ask I won't do it, but I fear that will lead people to just stick to their own cliques instead of engaging more widely.

 

[TwoSix]

AND THEY MUST BE STOPPED AMIRITE? You'll stand at the gate and make sure they know they're wrong?

Seriously. Why does it matter to you how somebody describes their fandom? This, right here, is what we mean by gatekeeping.

To be charitable, I've always perceived as being similar to the psychology that underlies prescriptivism versus descriptivism. The idea that words have a fixed and correct meaning, versus that language is simply whatever enables the best transmission of the idea.

If I wanted to extrapolate further, I'd look at Jonathan Haidt's Moral Foundations theory about the differing moral values of "purity". Whenever I see people desire that their fandom fit into certain definable boxes (the contentiousness around The Last Jedi comes to mind here), I assume there's an underlying psychological basis behind it.

I'm not saying it needs to be accepted, but I think the desire to see language codified comes from a real psychological place.

 

[Olrox17]

Here's an interesting point - "old" does not mean "traditional". I went to see a movie on X-mas day, once, a decade ago. That does not make it my X-mas tradition. Traditional is the thing I usually do, not the thing I used to do.

Yes, ok. I don't see how this invalidates my point.
Greyhawk is a traditional Dnd setting because it's been around since forever and has been played by literal millions over literal decades. Is that statement alright?

Honest, and possibly rhetorical question - how many characters have you played in fullness in those two years? How many of the options of Xanathar's Guide have you really explored?

Heck, I haven't even played all of the neat Player's Handbook characters I'd like to try, much less fully explored Xanathars!

Do I need new, for the sake of new? No. I only need new for the sake of using the material. And, by admission... until someone invites me to a game that calls for it, I don't really need new material to use. A friend just started up a game, and literally asked me to play an artificer. I didn't buy the new Eberron to do that - I'm using his, because I only need one class.

I don't get to be a player often, I'm usually in the DM seat. I'm also the kind of DM that likes creating helpful NPCs and villains using PC classes, full details. Which means, I probably played (alongside or against the PCs) at least 80% of the fifth edition character options! The leftover 20% is stuff I don't like, such as the champion fighter subclass. So yeah, new content, please.

Rick and Morty and Stranger Things are starter sets. Nobody who isn't starting has a real reason to buy them. Meanwhile, crossing with a popular property seems an excellent way to start people.

That leaves Eberron (hardly cross-promotional, is it?), Ravnica, Acquisitions Incorporated, and now Wildemount. All setting books. The fact that they are cross-promotional... isn't relevant. It is a setting book, and you have as much reason to buy it as any other setting book (either lots, or none, depending).

Didn't count Eberron, counted Wildermount. Hence the number 5. And don't get me wrong, cross-promotional books are a great idea. They expand the player base, which is cool.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don’t even care if streamers don’t actually play the game. They are interested, and talking about it, and it’s in the open. That’s a win for me and every other old(Er) gamer out there. More maintstream is better for us. That’s all that should matter

 

[Zaukrie]

thanks for what is generally a good place to come and safely and funly (not a word) discuss one of our favorite past times. I just don't get people sometimes.....

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I am a D&D fan but not a player, but more a collector.

If CR has been a great hook to get new fans you can't blame WotC to take adventage about this.

D&D is my favorite children cartoon, but now lots of currents fans would say it was destroying the canon.

Today if players aren't true collectors, they would rather to buy PDFs to get lore/fluff, even from previous editions.

Somebody wants to see changes in the timeline or metaplot, not only an updated version of the old books. I dare to say some fans would rather new Dark Suns novels set after the Pentam Prism.

I suggest for future streaming shows to use something like a digital tabletop, where miniatures are replaced by a videogame screen. Watchers would hear players' voices but seeing something like a machinima animation on the screen. This videogame would be like an asymetric e-sport where a player is the DM adding traps and monsters (like Resident Evil: Resistance).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I prefer Matt Mercer's classy approach to the issue. It's a lesson we could all take to heart.

Critical Role - Matt Mercer Speaks About The Wildemount Book

Matt Mercer posted on Reddit about the upcoming D&D setting book. "As the info seemed to leak a liiiiiiittle early yesterday, I just wanted to write something to reach out to the greater, non-critter DnD crowd regarding this book, what it means to me, and what I hope it means to you". Well...

www.enworld.org

Sure, but it didn't work, did it?

The only lesson to take to heart is you can't reason with unreasonable people.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, ok. I don't see how this invalidates my point.
Greyhawk is a traditional Dnd setting because it's been around since forever and has been played by literal millions over literal decades. Is that statement alright?

Kind of like saying caroling is a traditional X-mas activity... when almost nobody actually does it these days? This is a traditional setting that they haven't really supported*... within the lifespan of many of their players?

How much weight do we put on tradition like that?

I don't get to be a player often, I'm usually in the DM seat. I'm also the kind of DM that likes creating helpful NPCs and villains using PC classes, full details. Which means, I probably played (alongside or against the PCs) at least 80% of the fifth edition character options!

Okay, I wasn't clear about what I meant by "played", so I won't chafe at this. But, I gotta tell you, I find "the GM has used lots of the classes in the book" a weak reason to need more classes.



*Now begins the argument on what constitutes "real support". The Living Greyhawk Gazeteer was published in 2000, and there hasn't been a new version of the setting for two whole editions. I call that "not supported".

 

[Olrox17]

Kind of like saying caroling is a traditional X-mas activity... when almost nobody actually does it these days? This is a traditional setting that they haven't really supported*... within the lifespan of many of their players?

How much weight do we put on tradition like that?

Traditions can indeed die out. They become old traditions, or even ancient traditions. I feel like we're starting to argue semantics here, though.

Okay, I wasn't clear about what I meant by "played", so I won't chafe at this. But, I gotta tell you, I find "the GM has used lots of the classes in the book" a weak reason to need more classes.

Eh, fair enough. Being a full time DM, this is the only honest answer I can give. Everytime new player options (especially subclasses) come out, I get real sparks of inspiration for new adventures or campaigns. The meager amount of crunch that was in, say, Ravnica, just isn't enough for me.

*Now begins the argument on what constitutes "real support". The Living Greyhawk Gazeteer was published in 2000, and there hasn't been a new version of the setting for two whole editions. I call that "not supported".

Nah, I'm not gonna get into that argument, especially since I just used Greyhawk as a "legacy" example and I'm not the biggest fan of it. Dark Sun, on the other hand, is something I would really like to see published in 5e. Planescape, too.

 

[Morrus]

Sure, but it didn't work, did it?

One post won't change the world, no. Recycling one plastic bag won't stop climate change. Being kind to one person won't change society. Placing down one brick won't build a house. Skipping one soda won't make you lose weight.

I find all of these things to be very poor reasons not to do it.

The only lesson to take to heart is you can't reason with unreasonable people.

You do you, I guess.