On Magic Users and Darts: What's Up With That?

[Uller]

Maybe it is a false memory but I vaguely recall playing MUs in Pool of Radiance CRPG with darts. You had up to 6 PCs in the party...may as well have the low level MU be able to sit back and throw darts. If your MU was ending up in melee you were probably going to reload your last save anyway...

But that was a long time ago so it could be a false memory.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No, he is correct. A level 1 Magic-User got 1 weapon proficiency, had a -5 non-proficient penalty and gained a new weapon proficiency at a rate of 1 every 6 levels.

Also true for 2e.

 

[FireLance]

And then there was the time (in 2E) that the party was fighting an enemy who cast stoneskin, which (in 2E) blocked 1d4 + half caster level attacks, regardless of attack rolls. First thing my mage did on his turn was to chuck three darts at him.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Celebrim]

Thanks Maxperson. I think we assumed they were proficient in dart, dagger, and staff at first level.

It's amazing how much play experience varies by table depending on which set of rules the table was ignoring. For example, I know the tables I played at universally ignored the rules that required your character to take down time to train between levels - something I suspect is rather common and which disappeared in later editions. But I'm sure if you didn't, the entire process of play around a campaign changed.

 

[Nagol]

I'm noticing that there tends to be the greatest overlap between 2e players and darts, and/or some possible influence from playing the various CRPGs (Baldur's Gate was 1998, the Gold Box series was all 1988 and later).

In other words, my working theory is that the prominence of darts is mostly, but not entirely, a 90s thing.

We started with darts in the late 1970's. I ran 1e throughout the 1980's along side other systems. I'd say about 20-30% of single-classed Magic-Users went with darts. Additionally, once one M-U got established using darts, new M-Us started to take them preferentially.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

Person 1 - "For the ultimate magic-user weapon, I've put a dagger at the end of a staff, and you can throw it like a dart!"

Person 2 - "....You mean a spear?"

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Paul Farquhar]

IME, most people coming from the 70s/80s had the image of the MU as using a dagger, or a staff.

Dart was just as optimal in 1e as it was in 2e. I suspect we saw more optimisation coming in, and the influence of computer games, which throw a lot more monsters at the party than a typical table-top session.

It went out completely with 3rd edition, when it lost it's high rate of fire.

 

[Celebrim]

We took darts a lot in 1e. With d4 hit points, if a magic user was in melee combat the odds of death went waaaaay up. We threw darts at a distance and if something closed with us, we left melee and threw more darts. There were no attacks of opportunity then and you didn't want to stay in melee combat. That was what the fighters were for.

Speaking of how play experience would vary depending on which rules you ignored, there were actually attacks of opportunity in 1e. They weren't called that, but the 3e rules largely codified and simplified the disparate mentions of the idea in the various places in the rules. In particular, you could not just "leave melee" in 1e. If you were in base to base contact with a foe - in melee with them - then if you tried to disengage from melee (break contact) you drew a free attack from every figure you were in contact with. And it wasn't just "an attack", it was an attack on the rear of your figure, which meant you were flat footed, couldn't use a shield, and the opponent got a +4 to hit you. Nor was there a 5' step in 1e, so breaking out of melee in 1e was painful to the point of being something you just did not do.

If you ignored that, then yes, missile weapons do get A LOT more effective, and hands down you should always use darts. The dagger advocates are taking a compromise position that if you do get stuck in melee, at least you have some chance of fighting back. And I can see that point, but for the first 3 levels or so it's still a terrible position to be in, and if you aren't rescued from the situation by a nearby fighter you are probably dead dagger or not.