log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E On meaningless restrictions


log in or register to remove this ad

Minigiant

Legend
So let's say I give my justification. What might cause you deny it other than one of the reasons I listed?
1) the justification allows for invasion of the niche of another player's character that has it mors tied to them and the game only allows for few rolls of it.
2) The justification is not setting appropriate

That's really the only reason why I'd deny a proficiency choice.
 

HarbingerX

Rob Of The North
While I'm fully in favor of a class based system I am fully against niche protected class systems.
Which explains why you see class skill restrictions as being meaningless. You don't like niche protection, which is what it enforces for inexperienced players. And for experienced players, they can use background customization to break out of the niche restriction.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
1) the justification allows for invasion of the niche of another player's character that has it mors tied to them and the game only allows for few rolls of it.
2) The justification is not setting appropriate

That's really the only reason why I'd deny a proficiency choice.
So I agree with 2.

Care to respond to the counter argument I already made against 1) - that a player can already choose any 2 skills he wants with his background choice - so he's already allowed by RAW to invade another characters skill niche - which implies that invading a characters niche cannot be a reason for disallowing skill choices on a character - unless you are ignoring RAW on backgrounds?
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Which explains why you see class skill restrictions as being meaningless. You don't like niche protection, which is what it enforces for inexperienced players. And for experienced players, they can use background customization to break out of the niche restriction.
If it did that I would find the restriction meaningful but not to my taste. But class skill restrictions actually don't accomplish what you are claiming here that they do. As you noted - backgrounds already allow the niche to be destroyed.
 

prabe

Aspiring Lurker (He/Him)
Supporter
So I agree with 2.

Care to respond to the counter argument I already made against 1) - that a player can already choose any 2 skills he wants with his background choice - so he's already allowed by RAW to invade another characters skill niche - which implies that invading a characters niche cannot be a reason for disallowing skill choices on a character - unless you are ignoring RAW on backgrounds?
There's a difference between being able to choose any two skills, out of four (or five (or maybe six)) and being able to choose any four (or five (or maybe six)) skills. Some people might prefer one level of flexibility, others another. There's something to be said for only houseruling what you really thing needs to be houseruled. If you're houseruling enough other things, you might choose not to houserule this.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
There's a difference between being able to choose any two skills, out of four (or five (or maybe six)) and being able to choose any four (or five (or maybe six)) skills. Some people might prefer one level of flexibility, others another. There's something to be said for only houseruling what you really thing needs to be houseruled. If you're houseruling enough other things, you might choose not to houserule this.
My threads on game design aren't just about houseruling.
 

prabe

Aspiring Lurker (He/Him)
Supporter
There's a difference between being able to choose any two skills, out of four (or five (or maybe six)) and being able to choose any four (or five (or maybe six)) skills. Some people might prefer one level of flexibility, others another.
 

Minigiant

Legend
So I agree with 2.

Care to respond to the counter argument I already made against 1) - that a player can already choose any 2 skills he wants with his background choice - so he's already allowed by RAW to invade another characters skill niche - which implies that invading a characters niche cannot be a reason for disallowing skill choices on a character - unless you are ignoring RAW on backgrounds?
The niches are more than 2 skills. Taking Stealth and Sleight of Hand on your wizard doesn't invalidate the rogue's niche. Taking Acrobatics, Stealth, SoH, Perception and theives tools when your party already has a rogue is seriously stepping on toes.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
There's a difference between being able to choose any two skills, out of four (or five (or maybe six)) and being able to choose any four (or five (or maybe six)) skills. Some people might prefer one level of flexibility, others another.
But there's not a lot of difference between getting to pick 2 of any skill and also pick 2 skills out of a list 6 or so AND between getting to pick 4 out of any skill.
 




FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
The niches are more than 2 skills. Taking Stealth and Sleight of Hand on your wizard doesn't invalidate the rogue's niche. Taking Acrobatics, Stealth, SoH, Perception and theives tools when your party already has a rogue is seriously stepping on toes.
Just curious. If 2 players want to play rouges with the skills you listed - do you allow that?
 





Minigiant

Legend
Just curious. If 2 players want to play rouges with the skills you listed - do you allow that?
Yes.
However I'd go to them an tell them that for many skills,the action can only be performed once so either they have to agree on how they will share rogue time or choose different suites of skills.

But I will likely force them to choose a few different skills either way.
 


Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top