On number of ignores

[FrogReaver]

One solution would be to de-escalate instead of acting in kind. That would solve a lot of the problems you see in the Ignore system.

I think that's the ideal solution but there's many reasons it doesn't always work as well as it should. One reason being that we are all human and there's only so much de-escalation attempts we have in us. I believe that most of us initially try to avoid escalation but when someone keeps being rude despite those attempts it's fairly difficult (though not impossible) not to be rude in kind. Couple that with the fact that the medium makes it easier write something more offensive than intended or to take something more offensive than intended and it's not surprising these issues repeatedly crop up IMO.

 

[FrogReaver]

Then why am I having so many calm and enjoyable conversations now that the others have blocked me?

I think that's a great point. Though it may be a better point to bring up in support that some posters styles just don't mix. I imagine those other posters that blocked you are having more calm and enjoyable conversations now that they have blocked you as well.

This site is still very active for me, but now I'm not running into the contentious people that blocked me, so my experience is much more enjoyable.

I'm not goin to say that I have never started anything, but for me it has primarily been the other guy.

I think the most we can say is that we didn't consciously intend to start anything. I'm sure the other side didn't consciously intend to either. But at some point the way either them or us phrased something came across as rude/overly dismissive/etc and responses like that tend to 'start something' even if we didn't consciously intend them to.

I find that I have a bad habit of adding things to the beginning of my responses that are short witty-or-not-so-witty retorts that will only really inflame and so I'm much more careful about reading over my posts and deleting out such comments before I hit submit. Examples: "That's wrong" "Incorrect" "No that's you" "No one did that". I find dropping those phrases and focusing on my explanation instead helps the conversation along alot more. I also find it helps alot to not simply focus on your disagreements with someone but also to commend them on their good points and the places you agree.

 

[Lanefan]

Philosophically I remain opposed to not seeing the upside, only the downside. The system isn't there to give users the power to punish others, it's there because it is a very useful tool for users and moderators alike.

How is it a tool for moderators, though? Does the forum software even allow the mods to use it as a moderation tool? For example if you and I were fighting like cats over something could the mods force each of us on the other's ignore list?

 

[Morrus]

How is it a tool for moderators, though? Does the forum software even allow the mods to use it as a moderation tool? For example if you and I were fighting like cats over something could the mods force each of us on the other's ignore list?

We haven't done that, but the software has the functionality.

It's a tool in the sense that we can look at the numbers and see if anything needs a second look.

 

[Umbran]

Then why am I having so many calm and enjoyable conversations now that the others have blocked me?

Using the generic "you" here, and using slightly descriptive language to make the point...

If you are a borderline jerk, some people will have more tolerance for your jerkitude than others. When the ones with less tolerance opt out, your field of view becomes more quiet.

It does not mean that you aren't the cause of the problem. It means that folks who do have the problem have a solution they can use on their own, without us having to boot your sorry tuchus.

 

[Li Shenron]

I am definitely too harsh with ignoring, my tolerance threshold is too low and I tend to click ignore at the first sight of rudeness or if I get the feeling that someone is picking on me or wants to start a feud. It's hard to voluntarily ignore what you see written in front of you, so making them disappear is easier.

However I wish there was a sort of "quarantine" feature like on social networks, that would make you ignore someone for 30 days (or whatever) rather than permanently. My current ignore list is unfairly wrong because I don't remember often to go and un-ignore at least those who I don't even remember why they offended me.

 

[FrogReaver]

How is it a tool for moderators, though? Does the forum software even allow the mods to use it as a moderation tool? For example if you and I were fighting like cats over something could the mods force each of us on the other's ignore list?

That would be a feature id support.

 

[FrogReaver]

Using the generic "you" here, and using slightly descriptive language to make the point...

If you are a borderline jerk, some people will have more tolerance for your jerkitude than others. When the ones with less tolerance opt out, your field of view becomes more quiet.

I think there’s a difference in being a jerk in general and being a jerk only to jerks. The jerk is the problem. The person being the jerk only toward the jerk isn't.

It does not mean that you aren't the cause of the problem. It means that folks who do have the problem have a solution they can use on their own, without us having to boot your sorry tuchus.

I don't think a jerk blocking you indicates you are the problem.

Also it seems 1 way ignore would also have been a solution to that situation that they could use on their own, so I'm curious why you think 2-way block is a better solution to such situations than 1 way ignore?

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I am definitely too harsh with ignoring, my tolerance threshold is too low and I tend to click ignore at the first sight of rudeness or if I get the feeling that someone is picking on me or wants to start a feud. It's hard to voluntarily ignore what you see written in front of you, so making them disappear is easier.

However I wish there was a sort of "quarantine" feature like on social networks, that would make you ignore someone for 30 days (or whatever) rather than permanently. My current ignore list is unfairly wrong because I don't remember often to go and un-ignore at least those who I don't even remember why they offended me.

Yeah. I had some folks ignored for long enough I did not realize it anymore.

no longer mad, I Unignored them. It was time to let them out of quarantine.

that is how I use ignore....but without a reminder, I left them ignored longer than needed.

I would say there are few who I would permanently ignore. Of them, they often take care of it with their own behavior. Some are not around anymore

 

[Blue]

For this reason I believe that those least likely to ignore others tend to be the most likely to be ignored and so I don’t put much stock into number of ignores being a meaningful indicator about who is more abrasive. It’s instead more of an indicator of who has the thickest skin as it's quite common for 2 people on forums to strongly disagree with each other to end up being abrasive and rude toward each other and the one with the 'thinnest skin' is going to be the one to first reach for the ignore/block button.

Yes - but the point is that with two habitually abusive posters it's not a ranking of which is worse. If we can identify either of them and get them to clean up, we've made the boards a better place. So it's not really a ranking of "who is worse" - if someone gets in arguments with many others and gets blocked a lot, that's is an indicator about them. And when you're looking at 130 blocks, that's a large range of people. Even if that one person never blocked, those 130 - if they are repeat offenders - will have been blocked by some of the other 130, whom we do know do block people.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes - but the point is that with two habitually abusive posters it's not a ranking of which is worse. If we can identify either of them and get them to clean up, we've made the boards a better place.

Let's say we have 2 users that other both total jerks to everyone. I fully agree in that case. But there's another common use case of users that are only jerks to those that are being jerks to them. And it's that use case that is being ignored in this.

So it's not really a ranking of "who is worse" - if someone gets in arguments with many others and gets blocked a lot, that's is an indicator about them.

Anything someone does or even how others react to them is an indicator about them. The question is what does that indicate. I'm suggesting it doesn't indicate what is being claimed. That alot of blocks can be but isn't necessarily an indicator of a jerk.

And when you're looking at 130 blocks, that's a large range of people. Even if that one person never blocked, those 130 - if they are repeat offenders - will have been blocked by some of the other 130, whom we do know do block people.

Consider this scenario. The person with 130 blocks may never block other users but will reply in kind to them up to a certain extent. If those 130 people that blocked him are jerks and the guy that was blocked that many times was never a jerk to anyone else, then I wouldn't call him a jerk or a problem that needs cleaned up. Cleaning up the actual jerks will resolve any hint of jerkness from him as he's just being a 'counter jerk'.

 

[Umbran]

Consider this scenario. The person with 130 blocks may never block other users but will reply in kind to them up to a certain extent. If those 130 people that blocked him are jerks

That is a huge IF, though. You pile a whole lot of dependency into that unfounded supposition.

But hey, if it helps you sleep at night to believe that folks who get blocked a lot are somehow remarkably innocent, and they are blocked because everyone else is the jerk, well, you can do so. Nobody here can stop you. Have fun and pleasant dreams.

 

[Maxperson]

Consider this scenario. The person with 130 blocks may never block other users but will reply in kind to them up to a certain extent. If those 130 people that blocked him are jerks and the guy that was blocked that many times was never a jerk to anyone else, then I wouldn't call him a jerk or a problem that needs cleaned up. Cleaning up the actual jerks will resolve any hint of jerkness from him as he's just being a 'counter jerk'.

Speaking for myself, I'm not 100% innocent. There are times that I'm irritated, often due to lack of sleep or real life, and I cross into abrasiveness first. It happens on occasion. The vast majority of the time, though, someone else does it to me first, I try to re-explain, they do it again, etc. After the 4th-6th time, I get annoyed and treat them like they're treating me.

 

[FrogReaver]

That is a huge IF, though. You pile a whole lot of dependency into that unfounded supposition.

But hey, if it helps you sleep at night to believe that folks who get blocked a lot are somehow remarkably innocent, and they are blocked because everyone else is the jerk, well, you can do so. Nobody here can stop you. Have fun and pleasant dreams.

I’m not saying they are in general just that it’s possible some are.

I also get the impression it’s time for this conversation to end so that’s the last I’m going to say on it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But there's another common use case of users that are only jerks to those that are being jerks to them. And it's that use case that is being ignored in this.

I have come around to disagreeing with the idea that there is a meaningful difference. I am 100% someone who is a jerk to people when they are a jerk to me. That is a bad habit that I need better control of.

In real life, I’m privileged to live in a state that doesn’t allow prospective employers to ask why you left your last job, or whether it was voluntary, and to have bosses that have so far supported me in standing up to people. This means that when I indulge my big mouth in the presence of jerks, I’m unlikely to be fired and even less likely to have trouble finding a new job because of it. Which is great because when someone is being a jerk IRL, I am going to say something. Customers get abusive and I tell them to shut the hell up and get out.

But I can’t stare a jerk down, here. I can’t bully someone w with basic decency. As @Umbran has told me multiple times, the other guy has no reason to call down, so he probably won’t. The best way to deal with it is to report and ignore.

And 2-way ignore makes it so they can’t read your posts and “subtweet” you, they
are cut off from interacting with you in general.

 

[Morrus]

Ironically, I see that the post numbers are in the 200+ range in this thread, but I can only see 120 or so!

 

[generic]

Personally, I've never ignored any posters, and hope to have never offended anyone enough to be ignored.

But, hey, it's better to disengage than continue pointless internet feuds, get upset over words online, and spend less time enjoying the forums than you should.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Critics are those who watch a battle from on high and then come down and shoot the survivors.

You know, I appreciate what @Warpiglet-7 said about going back and re-doing your own ignored list periodically. But ... it also seems like a lot of effort. And having a fun conversation shouldn't be effort. If someone puts forth the hard work to get ignored, I try and honor that work.

 

[Blue]

Let's say we have 2 users that other both total jerks to everyone. I fully agree in that case. But there's another common use case of users that are only jerks to those that are being jerks to them. And it's that use case that is being ignored in this.


Anything someone does or even how others react to them is an indicator about them. The question is what does that indicate. I'm suggesting it doesn't indicate what is being claimed. That alot of blocks can be but isn't necessarily an indicator of a jerk.


Consider this scenario. The person with 130 blocks may never block other users but will reply in kind to them up to a certain extent. If those 130 people that blocked him are jerks and the guy that was blocked that many times was never a jerk to anyone else, then I wouldn't call him a jerk or a problem that needs cleaned up. Cleaning up the actual jerks will resolve any hint of jerkness from him as he's just being a 'counter jerk'.

No, at that quantity it doesn't work like that. For a few blocks I agree with what you are saying as a possibility. But when you get up to 130 blocks, if everyone else was really "the jerks" they would have similar or more blocks.

Think like this - a jerk will get blocked by people who don't want to deal with them. If they are as active, they will both have a similar number of blocks from "gives back", but the jerk will also have additional blocks from starting things.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I just unblocked two posters from God-knows-when, whom I had apparently blocked for God-knows-what.

Otherwise, I haven't used the ignore feature for years. I'm curmudgeony and opinionated, and tend to have a high tolerance for people behaving the same way. And even posters who can be really annoying occasionally let some gem slip.