Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
All this talk about trolls makes me really miss Bugaboo. Now that guy was the best ever.
Bugaboo? Story time!
All this talk about trolls makes me really miss Bugaboo. Now that guy was the best ever.
Bugaboo? Story time!
Bugaboo was a user who acted as... a perpetual gaming April Fool's joke. He hasn't been seen around since 2008, but his account's still there, and you can look up posts if you wish.
I feel like back in the day there were more posters playing characters, often in a trollish way.Bugaboo was a user who acted as... a perpetual gaming April Fool's joke. He hasn't been seen around since 2008, but his account's still there, and you can look up posts if you wish.
I feel like back in the day there were more posters playing characters, often in a trollish way.
Except wouldn't someone that experienced be savvy enough to quickly change their title from Villager to something - anything! - else?It is painfully obvious when some Villager joins a conversation as if they’ve been here for years. Talking with familiarity with people on the same topics.
Gads - if I posted as Lanefan-the-character my lifespan here would be measured in minutes; the same minutes that Eric's Grandma would spend running for the hills while trying at the same time to wash out her highly-offended ears...I feel like back in the day there were more posters playing characters ...
Nah, I won't block you.I play a bard. And I'd do it again.
hand dramatically to forehead Block me if you must.![]()
Except wouldn't someone that experienced be savvy enough to quickly change their title from Villager to something - anything! - else?
I basically stole Eric's Grandma (hm, I should rephrase that) for my 3rd Grade classroom. Whenever I see the kids writing or drawing, let's say "PG-13" stuff, I ask "Would you show that to my sweet old granny?"Gads - if I posted as Lanefan-the-character my lifespan here would be measured in minutes; the same minutes that Eric's Grandma would spend running for the hills while trying at the same time to wash out her highly-offended ears...![]()
Luckily that's not the number discussed here!For this reason I believe that those least likely to ignore others tend to be the most likely to be ignored and so I don’t put much stock into number of ignores being a meaningful indicator about who is more abrasive.
Philosophically I remain opposed to not seeing the upside, only the downside. The system isn't there to give users the power to punish others, it's there because it is a very useful tool for users and moderators alike. That it can be construed as punitive is not the same as actually being punitive, and that a few users get annoyed is easily a cost worth paying.However, philosophically, I have to remain opposed to other users being given the power to 'punish' other users.
For me that doesn't apply for 2 reasons. First, a reply to someone isn't a reply only to that person. It's a reply to everyone in the thread, so even though the ignored person isn't going to know I replied, everyone else that can see my reply will and can continue the conversation with me. If something was worth replying to, it was something that I also welcomed responses from anyone in the thread. Second, I feel that almost everyone has at least some good ideas and I don't want to miss out on seeing those.The one direct value I see in 2-way ignore is the idea that: 'if you don't want to talk to me then I don't really want to waste my time replying to you'. Meaning in a 1-way ignore environment I could reply to someone that is never going to see my post and wasting my time doing that isn't something I value - so it's not like 1-way ignore is fault free either.
It doesn't help with preventing stalking at all, though. Someone who is emotional enough to engage in activity that rises to the level of stalking, is also going to be emotional enough to go through the very little effort it takes to circumvent the current set-up.I've seen it mentioned that it helps prevent stalking which is a commendable endeavor - but we already had one way blocking and moderators for issues like that - which to me makes that justification ring a little hollow. Instead 2-way blocking has been typically presented as providing 2 things:
This thread is about those that are ignored alot. As such a comment about 'the most likely to be ignored' seems to directly fall into the discussion to me. Maybe you can elaborate on why you think it doesn't?Luckily that's not the number discussed here!
On technicality I agree. Those users posting the least or even never are going to be the least likely to block or be blocked. I guess it's safe to phrase it this way: the intended context of my comment was only about those users that are regularly active in a variety of different threads and topics because looking at the trivial case of those that seldom post just doesn't make for an interesting discussion IMO.And I think those least likely to ignore others is... the vast majority of users who never interact with the blocking system at all.
I didn't only post the downsides. I gave at least 1 upside that I agree with while also explaining why I don't agree with the other touted upsides. I'm curious if there's some other upside I'm missing. Do you think there is?Philosophically I remain opposed to not seeing the upside, only the downside. The system isn't there to give users the power to punish others, it's there because it is a very useful tool for users and moderators alike.
So I have to ask: How exactly does it benefit the blocker for the blocked to no longer be able to see their posts? Punitiveness is the only answer I have for that. I'm opening to there being something more I'm missing but it's not readily apparent to me.That it can be construed as punitive is not the same as actually being punitive,
It depends on what that 'cost' is paying for. I'm just not seeing a good explanation for what paying that cost is actually buying us (outside the ability to punish others without the mods). It would be very nice if you would elaborate on what you view as the benefits and how this feature actually accomplishes providing those benefits.and that a few users get annoyed is easily a cost worth paying.
I think there's a few different types of posts and the following is by no means an exhaustive list:For me that doesn't apply for 2 reasons. First, a reply to someone isn't a reply only to that person.
I fully agree there. But for practical purposes - if there idea is really good then at some point they won't be the only one to adopt it. So I'm not very likely to miss out either way. I think at some point it becomes about maximizing the good ideas you find. Sometimes ignoring certain people - while it may cause you to miss out on some of their good ideas - you may actually find that you find more good ideas due to the extra time and investment you get by not having to deal with them.Second, I feel that almost everyone has at least some good ideas and I don't want to miss out on seeing those.
I agree with the conclusion but not the argument. Something can still be a deterrent despite not being full proof. I think the better argument is that everyone already had better tools to prevent stalking on this site than what adding a 2-way blocking function provides. To me it's alot like saying I bought this sharp kitchen knife to protect myself from burglars when you already have a gun in every room of your house.It doesn't help with preventing stalking at all, though. Someone who is emotional enough to engage in activity that rises to the level of stalking, is also going to be emotional enough to go through the very little effort it takes to circumvent the current set-up.
What I found from doing that is that others would become rude and abrasive - I would act in kind - and then after some back and forth they would ignore me. If I had ignored them first then it's extremely likely that they wouldn't have ignored me.
For this reason I believe that those least likely to ignore others tend to be the most likely to be ignored and so I don’t put much stock into number of ignores being a meaningful indicator about who is more abrasive.
One solution would be to de-escalate instead of acting in kind. That would solve a lot of the problems you see in the Ignore system.For a long time after I started regularly posting here I never used the ignore/block feature. What I found from doing that is that others would become rude and abrasive - I would act in kind - and then after some back and forth they would ignore me. If I had ignored them first then it's extremely likely that they wouldn't have ignored me.
Then why am I having so many calm and enjoyable conversations now that the others have blocked me? This site is still very active for me, but now I'm not running into the contentious people that blocked me, so my experience is much more enjoyable.So, there is one element missing from your analysis that may impact how we view this:
Everyone says, and seems to believe, that the other person is the one who started being abrasive. Almost universally, both sides of conflicts say it was started by the other guy.
Or playground blaming, as we like to say. Plus "He started it!" isn't an excuse, even in the rare cases it actually is true.So, there is one element missing from your analysis that may impact how we view this:
Everyone says, and seems to believe, that the other person is the one who started being abrasive. Almost universally, both sides of conflicts say it was started by the other guy.
I fully agree with the sentiment, except that I wouldn't call it missing from my analysis. It's unstated for sure, but that's because to me it's such a trivial truth that it didn't need stated in the first place.So, there is one element missing from your analysis that may impact how we view this:
Everyone says, and seems to believe, that the other person is the one who started being abrasive. Almost universally, both sides of conflicts say it was started by the other guy.
I don't think this follows from that premise. We would need to look at the 'Use Cases' where the ignore function is utilized.If we include this information, and your description, what we get is that people who are more stubborn and/or less self aware of their impact get ignored more.