D&D 5E On the healing options in the 5e DMG

[Gimul]

Assuming the following is correct

I like:
1) how a character can self-heal by spending his own action.
Specifically I like how this loosens up the dependency on a dedicated healer (assuming the rule is optional, and geared towards groups where nobody particularly cares to play the healer).
Rather than forcing some other character to enter the healing role and use up actions, you take the consequences (of going low on hp) and sacrifice your own action.
2) how half of your Hit Dice makes for a nice Cure spell - nothing too powerful, but not insignificant either.
3) how there is no mention (in the quote, at least) of tying Hit Dice to all healing like in 4E. Specifically I like that this healing is completely in addition to all other sources of healing. Unlike in 4E, when you quaff a Potion of Healing, that does not expend any of your personal resources (your HD). Reason: in 4E, everybody had to contribute to the all-important party quality of "soaking damage". Even if you played a sharpshooting ranger, the economics of hit dice compelled you to place yourself in harm's way, so your HD came into play too. You couldn't just have the tank soak all the damage, which always felt completely alien to me.
4) how you regain your HD after a long rest. A natural recovery rate, I think. (Remember, I am looking at this from the perspective of enabling healer-role-less play as an optional rule)

What I don't particularly care for:
1) the notion that you have only one surge per short rest. I don't see what breaks by you spending all your Hit Dice during the same fight. I don't want a return to the arbitrary 4E feeling where you needed to drag out play over a short rest just to unlock your full potential. I will simply erase that restriction.


In short, characters can
a) spend an action on a surge of healing or whatever you want to call it, spending up to half their maximum number of Hit Dice to heal.
b) this they can do as often they like (as long as their HD lasts!)
c) each long rest, HD reset.

By the way, I will combine this with


I want the focus to be on hit points. I didn't care for the 4E idea that the true measure of your wounds and tiredness was your HD.

So at the end of a day, if a character has only a few HD remaining, and spending those isn't enough to bring him or her up to max hp, then the party will have to decide between expending party resources (potions, visits to the local shrine etc) and personal (tomorrow's Hit Dice).

But is this enough? Compared to a life cleric, it's not much. But at least it is much better than the unaltered rules (for the intended type of campaign).

Zapp.

PS. Any replies regarding how any of this diminishes the role of healer, or how player pressure constitues bullying is strongly discouraged. I do not intend to discuss any of that - if you can't accept the topic: a wish for optional rules enabling healer-less play; do not reply.

The default rules support healer-less play just fine.

I prefer a grittier (but slower encounter per in game day) style, so I do not use the default rules. My PC's recover no hit points during a long rest unless they are at a plot designated safe point (an Inn for example). Each long rest they recover con mod HD (minimum 1). It's working fine so far, if it scales poorly I will re-visit. Two members of the party are capable of healing (ranger, bard) but neither functions as a dedicated healer. In combat healing, or indeed even stabilization, appears to be considered, at best, a last resort option.


P.S. If you do not wish to discuss something, then do not make it the basis of your argument.

 

[TheFindus]

I had thought that "healing options in the DMG" would not only include a more grittier version of healing, but ideas/concepts on a full martial healer class as well. As far as I understand the rules, right now there is no martial equivalent to the healing options of the cleric. And, as others have said already, a limited amount of healing options for healing beside taking an action.
Considering this has been part of D&D for the last years, I think this is a shame und utterly unforgivable. Where is the equivalent of the Warlord in this fifth edition?

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Where is the equivalent of the Warlord in this fifth edition?

A pretty nice warlord can be created with the Battle Master fighter, and the Inspiring Leader feat can really pump up the hit point aspects of it. However, there are only temporary hit points from either of those options, so if you are looking for full healing you won't find it.

On the other hand, the temporary hit points given last until you take a long rest, and you regain all your hit points after the long rest anyway--so it's a lot more like actual healing that temporary hit points have been in the past.

 

[Eric V]

The default rules support healer-less play just fine.

Really? How? In two high level encounters I ran, the cleric needed to heal 80% of the time...no cleric and they would have died, for sure, on an encounter the DMG would describe as 'hard.'

That there is capacity to regain hit points without a dedicated healer is not the same thing as saying it is supported "just fine."

P.S. If you do not wish to discuss something, then do not make it the basis of your argument.

He's not making an argument here. He's asking for a discussion to remain focused.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you Eric.

But really, that discussion is still a sidetrack to what I'd like opinions on:

I want to discuss ways to beef up healing not originating from a single character. Ways to play the game when nobody wants to axle the healer's mantle, but still want to experience published campaigns at standard pace.

The premise is that groups exist that want to play without a dedicated healer. And yes, that's not an argument. Either you're interested in the premise and want to discuss solutions or you simply move on to another discussion.

I have clearly stated that any solutions we arrive at should remain optional. I am definitely not trying to argue the default game needs healer-less healing. I am asking for suggestions on how to provide healer-less healing for those groups interested in this option, and I will most definitely not participate in any further attempts to derail this - to me - fascinating topic.

(By the way, that's not directed to you, Eric)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Forgive me if this has been suggested--I've read the whole thread, but it's hard to keep track.

Why not just put cure wounds (and a few others, like restoration) on every spell list? That way, healing's spread out more, and lots of characters can take care of themselves. Unless you have a magic-lite party, nobody has to take on the bulk of the healing duties.

 

[Gimul]

I was referring to earlier, when the topic was first interduced.

You have give more information than "...high level encounters... cleric needed to heal 80% of the time... 'hard'". In order for any of that to be meaningful we need to know the group composition, encounter composition, tactics used, general conditions of the fight, party resources at the time the encounters took place, and a general idea of how the die rolls went for both sides (including initiative if there were a large number of npcs).

 

[DEFCON 1]

I want to discuss ways to beef up healing not originating from a single character. Ways to play the game when nobody wants to axle the healer's mantle, but still want to experience published campaigns at standard pace.

At this point, I think everything you might need is already in the game, it's just a matter of how you want to use them.

The methods for regaining "health" in some form or fashion in the game include Spells, Hit Dice, Second Wind, Channel Divinity, Lay on Hands, Song of Rest, Rally, Potions of Healing, Healer's Kits, and probably some others I'm forgetting to mention. So there are lots of ways already in the game to heal people. The question really becomes how much of this do you want available to your party, and what kind of story or fluff do you want attached to it?

The "healing surge" alternate rule that allows you to spend up to half your hit dice with a single Action is a way for each character to get "self-healing". Mouseferatu's suggestion of putting Cure Wounds on every spell list is another suggestion. Giving the fighter's Second Wind ability to every character (using their own hit die size rather than the d10) is another (and then you come up with an alternate ability to give to the the 1st level fighter for that unique slot). You could give everyone Lay on Hands and then replace the paladin's special slot with another ability. You could make the gathering of herbs for the creation of potions of healing so simple that everyone can do it for virtually no cost and everyone can down them during combat.

You know how many slots of potential healing your party has based upon the class make-up. So you know how much healing you need to replace if you don't want the spellcasters to spend their spells on it. Just decide the manner to which every party member can have access to the various healing abilities in the game, adjust the fluff to fit, and then try it out and see how it works.

 

[Gimul]

Thank you Eric.

But really, that discussion is still a sidetrack to what I'd like opinions on:

I want to discuss ways to beef up healing not originating from a single character. Ways to play the game when nobody wants to axle the healer's mantle, but still want to experience published campaigns at standard pace.

The premise is that groups exist that want to play without a dedicated healer. And yes, that's not an argument. Either you're interested in the premise and want to discuss solutions or you simply move on to another discussion.

I have clearly stated that any solutions we arrive at should remain optional. I am definitely not trying to argue the default game needs healer-less healing. I am asking for suggestions on how to provide healer-less healing for those groups interested in this option, and I will most definitely not participate in any further attempts to derail this - to me - fascinating topic.

(By the way, that's not directed to you, Eric)

Thank you for, finally, re-defining the premise to eliminate social dependantcy.

The base rules support healer-less healing (through rests, potions and DM throttling of the encounter pace).

The published adventures less so, although this is to be expected as the majority of published adventures tend to railroad at a set (standard) encounter pace. They also tend to have certain plot points that must be achieved in order to continue; and often assume (are tuned for) a relatively standard party composition (role wise).

Three obvious ways for a DM to tune such publications for a healer-less party are to modify the adventure (parts that railroad the party into tank and spank style encounters; parts that don't advance the story but sap resources; parts that only allow for brute force resolution), increase the availability of potions/item based healing, or re-tune specific encounters.

I would mostly do nothing (maybe skip some of the filler), and let the party’s tactics play themselves out.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I want to discuss ways to beef up healing not originating from a single character. Ways to play the game when nobody wants to axle the healer's mantle, but still want to experience published campaigns at standard pace.

I'm not sure that it can be done. When you have a single healing character to do the job, you don't just increase the effective HP of the party by X/4 for the course of the day; you have a free-floating pool of X Hit Points that you can distribute among whichever characters need it most. There's no amount of distributed healing that would have the same effect as that focused healing.