Celebrim
Legend
I'm fairly well inclined to agree with KM on the mechanics things, and I have a great deal of respect for his work. I'd personally still like to somewhat limit cleric selection by having a list of Primary Domains and Secondary Domains, with no more than one secondary domain allowed. As you developed the setting you'd probably want to group allowable domains further, for instance a cleric of the Knights Templars, a Moslem cleric, a Orthodox Greek monk, a Benedictine monk, and a Jewish Rabbi, might all be considered to be clerics of the same deity, but thier philosphies might perclude access to certain domains. You'd also probably want to make Prestige classes for many of the above (or some stage of many of the above) which would (Defenders of the Faith style) grant Prestige domains - which may or may not be Secondary domains.
I really want to avoid get into weighty Theological debate on this, but I do want to mention something. Someone made the point that Knowledge shouldn't be on God's list because he forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge. This is not strictly true. He forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil . So, it is not that God was opposed to Knowledge (and if you think about it, he only put the tree in the garden so they'd eat of it, plan B was plan A all along, but nevermind I'm trying to avoid weighty debate), its that he was warning Adam that finding out certain kinds of Knowledge would carry consequences - namely, that Adam would lose his innocence and would find thereafter his free will rather burdensome. Despite what you learned in school, the Catholic church (with a few exceptions) has been histories most consistant (and indeed most zealous) supporter of science over superstition and knowledge over conjecture. And I say this as someone who isn't even a member of the Catholic church.
OK, back OT. You really have two choices here. Make this whole theological thing sorta background (safer bet in my opinion) or go wholesale and develope Judeo-Christian feats (like Faith, Greater Faith, 'Faith like a Grain of Mustard Seed', Love, Prudence, Long Suffering, Tolerance, Courage, Hope, Charity, Tongues, Evangelist, Teacher, Miracle Worker, Prayer Warrior, Soberity, Discernment, etc. etc.)
I strongly encourage you to implement ME d20 style magic rules, which means among other things going through the spell list and deciding what works and what doesn't. Probably also inventing some new long duration minimal effect subtle spells (especially for arcane) to represent the sort of effects real magi's claimed to be able to do (Few if any ever claimed the ability to shoot fireballs. That was a claim too easily verified as false.) You might also require that no more than 1/2 of your levels can be in a primary spell casting class (mage, sorcerer, adept, druid, shaman, and possibly cleric) for the same reason they do it in ME d20 - it limits the most flashy effects and the number of people who can make magic items.
Since this is probably going to be a pretty gritty world (the real world always is) go ahead and use the WP/VP system for combat.
As for monsters, I've no problem with there being a few 'things that don't exist' that the Catholic church (and other anti-magic/superstition groups) have not yet cleaned up: the odd dragon here, a group of fading fey there, a djinn in the desert, some undead from an evil necromancer there, a hag here, etc. Though, in keeping with the gritty spirit of the affair these should be rare and thuroughly frighting encounters. Almost all of these beings should be advanced from there MMI stats. Something like the Ravenloft fear/horror/madness checks wouldn't be out of order. Someone mentioned Nephilim. These should probably be ogres or half-fiends not half-celestials. Demons and devils probably need to be completely reworked to enfisize the role as tempting spirits and provocuters of evil and misfortune rather than powerful foes in combat. Oddly enough, Green Ronin's shaman handbook (by far the best of the Shaman books) isn't a bad place to start when reworking all the outsiders as spirits.
As far arcane magic, I'm going to risk stepping on the toes of some of my orthodox brothers by saying that you shouldn't rule it as (always) coming from Satan. It is perfectly fine to have this as personal power of the individual spell caster. By limiting adept/sorcerer/mage to no more than 1/2 of the characters levels, you aren't going to have alot of flashy effects coming from these classes anyway. What you SHOULD do (IMO) is make sure that casting arcane spells carry with them a Ravenloft/Star Wars like penalty in that in using them you (usually) acquire 'dark side points' and/or the attention of Very Bad Things (tm). (In the case of druids and adepts even divine spells, though probably to a lesser extent if the divine spell caster believed a) that he was faithfully serving a benevolent being and b) was sincerely trying to use his abilities for benevolent purposes and c) those purposes really are benevolent in the sense it is usually defined) However, I'd go so far as to add Jewish Cabalist and Christian Theurgist to the list of prestige classes the setting needs. Just handle this thing very carefully. These shouldn't be D&D style spell casters.
The alignment system hardly has a bigger supporter than me, but you might consider reducing its role somewhat here, especially the role of law/chaos. Someone mentioned that Prot/Dispel Evil shouldn't exist in this campaign because servants directly doing the divine will are infinitely more powerful than there foes. That may be true of angels, but use lesser beings have more tenous faith and might be disconcerted (as Peter was disconcerted when he looked down at the waves) by powerful displays of evil.
Final word of advice: Read a real good translation of Beowulf. Several times.
I really want to avoid get into weighty Theological debate on this, but I do want to mention something. Someone made the point that Knowledge shouldn't be on God's list because he forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge. This is not strictly true. He forbade Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil . So, it is not that God was opposed to Knowledge (and if you think about it, he only put the tree in the garden so they'd eat of it, plan B was plan A all along, but nevermind I'm trying to avoid weighty debate), its that he was warning Adam that finding out certain kinds of Knowledge would carry consequences - namely, that Adam would lose his innocence and would find thereafter his free will rather burdensome. Despite what you learned in school, the Catholic church (with a few exceptions) has been histories most consistant (and indeed most zealous) supporter of science over superstition and knowledge over conjecture. And I say this as someone who isn't even a member of the Catholic church.
OK, back OT. You really have two choices here. Make this whole theological thing sorta background (safer bet in my opinion) or go wholesale and develope Judeo-Christian feats (like Faith, Greater Faith, 'Faith like a Grain of Mustard Seed', Love, Prudence, Long Suffering, Tolerance, Courage, Hope, Charity, Tongues, Evangelist, Teacher, Miracle Worker, Prayer Warrior, Soberity, Discernment, etc. etc.)
I strongly encourage you to implement ME d20 style magic rules, which means among other things going through the spell list and deciding what works and what doesn't. Probably also inventing some new long duration minimal effect subtle spells (especially for arcane) to represent the sort of effects real magi's claimed to be able to do (Few if any ever claimed the ability to shoot fireballs. That was a claim too easily verified as false.) You might also require that no more than 1/2 of your levels can be in a primary spell casting class (mage, sorcerer, adept, druid, shaman, and possibly cleric) for the same reason they do it in ME d20 - it limits the most flashy effects and the number of people who can make magic items.
Since this is probably going to be a pretty gritty world (the real world always is) go ahead and use the WP/VP system for combat.
As for monsters, I've no problem with there being a few 'things that don't exist' that the Catholic church (and other anti-magic/superstition groups) have not yet cleaned up: the odd dragon here, a group of fading fey there, a djinn in the desert, some undead from an evil necromancer there, a hag here, etc. Though, in keeping with the gritty spirit of the affair these should be rare and thuroughly frighting encounters. Almost all of these beings should be advanced from there MMI stats. Something like the Ravenloft fear/horror/madness checks wouldn't be out of order. Someone mentioned Nephilim. These should probably be ogres or half-fiends not half-celestials. Demons and devils probably need to be completely reworked to enfisize the role as tempting spirits and provocuters of evil and misfortune rather than powerful foes in combat. Oddly enough, Green Ronin's shaman handbook (by far the best of the Shaman books) isn't a bad place to start when reworking all the outsiders as spirits.
As far arcane magic, I'm going to risk stepping on the toes of some of my orthodox brothers by saying that you shouldn't rule it as (always) coming from Satan. It is perfectly fine to have this as personal power of the individual spell caster. By limiting adept/sorcerer/mage to no more than 1/2 of the characters levels, you aren't going to have alot of flashy effects coming from these classes anyway. What you SHOULD do (IMO) is make sure that casting arcane spells carry with them a Ravenloft/Star Wars like penalty in that in using them you (usually) acquire 'dark side points' and/or the attention of Very Bad Things (tm). (In the case of druids and adepts even divine spells, though probably to a lesser extent if the divine spell caster believed a) that he was faithfully serving a benevolent being and b) was sincerely trying to use his abilities for benevolent purposes and c) those purposes really are benevolent in the sense it is usually defined) However, I'd go so far as to add Jewish Cabalist and Christian Theurgist to the list of prestige classes the setting needs. Just handle this thing very carefully. These shouldn't be D&D style spell casters.
The alignment system hardly has a bigger supporter than me, but you might consider reducing its role somewhat here, especially the role of law/chaos. Someone mentioned that Prot/Dispel Evil shouldn't exist in this campaign because servants directly doing the divine will are infinitely more powerful than there foes. That may be true of angels, but use lesser beings have more tenous faith and might be disconcerted (as Peter was disconcerted when he looked down at the waves) by powerful displays of evil.
Final word of advice: Read a real good translation of Beowulf. Several times.
whow, the translation in english has changed the game that much?!
