Once and for all- Is D&D magic overpowered?

[gizmo33]

I've been worried for quite a while about the state of my favorite roleplaying game

Your favorite role playing game survived a few decades so far with virtually the same spell list.

Circumstances make a huge difference to PvP type combat, and I think you're ignoring all of the complications in trying to use the spells you're talking about (like duration). Besides, the mention of Contact Other Plane as some sort of fighter-killing spell (it's probably more dangerous to the wizard casting it) makes me think that your concerns are mostly theoretical, or maybe based on one incident where the circumstances went against the fighter. I don't have problems with wizards IMC - they seem a little weak at times because of their low hitpoints and AC. Other times (usually early in the morning when they have all of their spells) they seem more balanced out. Fighters actually "rule" IMC because other character types follow them - even other wizards prefer to follow the fighter because they know the fighter isn't going to teleport away on them. And once a fighter has a wizard henchman cast fly and invisibility on him, then things aren't as simple as you portray them.

 

[swrushing]

I'm not sure at all what you mean there. Apparently I've been playing on a wobbly table for a long time now. You'd think we'd notice if it was a problem. :\

Presumably, your Gm is doing a fine job at selecting and adjusting the challenges to suit your party and their "non-dnd-standard" capabilities. For instance, you are probably not meeting as many "requires magic weapons to hurt" style varmints as a more "traditional" dnd opposition set would include.

As long as the Gm understands scripting and challenge tailoring, the D20 system, and even DND, can cover a very wide scope reasonably well.

But for discussions like this which seems to be more of a "what the system does" with a bit of sans-gm flavor, that notion seems to find little purchase.

 

[iwatt]

I've been worried for quite a while about the state of my favorite roleplaying game, because I've begun to notice an alarming tendency for the magic using classes to be unbeatable by their non-magic-using rivals. High level magic especially can outright kill anybody, and often mages can target a fighter or rogue's weak save, bending them to their will after one unlucky die roll.

Exactly how is this different than every other edition of DnD? Wizards start fragile and then become super powerful beings.

Fighters start powerful and then plateu. The only way they stay competitive is by using magic items.

I have no problem with this. It's a Fantasy trope (sp?). Or do you have a problem with the fact that someone who can allegedely bend the laws of reality and the time-space continuum, beating a guy who can swing a sword really hard? That's what happens when you have a Lev 12 fighter go solo agaisnt a Lev 12 Wizard. But that's not DnD.....

 

[WayneLigon]

Not by any means to disagree with you but BLUR does this just fine. Also any of the fog spells will suffice. These all give you concealment and any concealment prevents sneak attack entirely.

No disagreement there; it does exactly what you say it does. Never seen anyone take Blur before, so I didn't know. Cool.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I'm desperately looking for an answer (hopefully one that doesn't involve some obscure prestige class, as that wouldn't be all that great to have everybody who isn't a magic user join the exact same class) but it's beginning to look to me like there is no answer, and D&D will be plagued for years to come with a horrific unbalance.

Some suggestions for a solution. Use the D20 Modern idea of spell availability... capped at 6th level spells.

But there are so many parts of the D&D system that are built upon each other, iterative attacks like a chain saw, rogue sneak attack damage like a mini-nuke, and monster hit point levels high enough to fit these two class abilities. It is in this framework that the spell system fits.

Carefully consider downgrading spellcaster ability.

A better solution may be to just create your own spell availability charts.

 

[Gez]

I'm not sure at all what you mean there. Apparently I've been playing on a wobbly table for a long time now. You'd think we'd notice if it was a problem. :\

You just aren't observant. Your games are completely broken and unbalanced. Repent your evil ways, sinner!

 

[diaglo]

You just aren't observant. Your games are completely broken and unbalanced. Repent your evil ways, sinner!

but a table can be balanced on 3 legs.

diaglo "a three legged mang" Ooi

 

[Mercule]

I'm not sure at all what you mean there. Apparently I've been playing on a wobbly table for a long time now. You'd think we'd notice if it was a problem. :\

Depends on whether you cut the other legs to match or not.

 

[Remathilis]

Rock, Paper, Scissors

Fighter, Wizard, Rogue

Wizards beat fighters, rogues beat wizards, and fighters beat rogues. While not absolutely true, in general this is the combat balance among the classes.

And Clerics Clean House on All.

 

[Desdichado]

That's completely different. Player = PC. A PC will rarely fight a one on one battle, so you arn't going to get into the wizard vs. fighter thing. It will be a theoretically balanced group of four versus one or more NPC enemies, which is totally different.

How do you know that? In my experience, PCs get separated all the time, often on purpose.