Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief

[webrunner]

My take:

"Daily" abilities are not daily because they are abilities that you can use once per day.

They are daily because they are the sort of abilities a hero uses once per episode.

 

[frankthedm]

I agree with the OP limiting per day does not feel right for non magical abilities. If they are taxing to perform, they ought to cost HP or healing surges to use.

 

[Zurai]

I agree with the OP limiting per day does not feel right for non magical abilities. If they are taxing to perform, they ought to cost HP or healing surges to use.

So in other words only wizards, clerics, warlocks, and paladins can do cool stuff without committing seppuku?

 

[Wormwood]

They are daily because they are the sort of abilities a hero uses once per episode.

I like the way you think!

That's precisely my rationale---for a lot of 4e, in fact.

 

[frankthedm]

So in other words only wizards, clerics, warlocks, and paladins can do cool stuff without committing seppuku?

If you think that spending HP and healing surges must equal spending ALL HP and healing surges, you are free to do so, but do not try to infer that was the equivalent of my words.

 

[Zurai]

If you think that spending HP and healing surges must equal spending ALL HP and healing surges, you are free to do so, but do not try to infer that was the equivalent of my words.

Well, let's put it this way:

The absolute maximum number of healing surges available to a martial character is 23 (30 con dwarf fighter with durable and dwarven durability). Said character would have 219 hp and a surge value of 64. The absolute maximum number of daily powers available to such a character is 11. If non-magical "daily" powers cost 1 healing surge each, and the fighter limited himself to 1 use of each power per day voluntarily, said fighter would pay the equivalent of 704 hit points to use all of his available daily powers.

A more typical character would be a rogue or ranger with maybe 14 con at the high end, with 8-9 surges, and would never be able to use all of their "daily" powers - and if they did, they'd be at risk of imminent death in any combat anywhere near their level.

 

[Samuel Leming]

After carefully reviewing both the OP and the attached sig I really don't see that they're incompatable. Maintaining SoD is not equal to requiring abstract rules to be the physics of the world. It does help for these abstract rules to actually be abstracting something though.

There are many old school sandbox style D&D players out there and these non-magical dailly powers are going to be a hurdle for thousands of them.

Thousands.

Not everyone wants the same thing out of D&D.

Sam

 

[jmucchiello]

If you think that spending HP and healing surges must equal spending ALL HP and healing surges, you are free to do so, but do not try to infer that was the equivalent of my words.

I believe the point was that the wizard isn't spending a healing surge to do something once per day. Why should the fighter?

 

[Zurai]

I believe the point was that the wizard isn't spending a healing surge to do something once per day. Why should the fighter?

Correct. And you can't set the price as LESS than a healing surge, either, because fighters could abuse it with their multiple attack-for-big-damage-AND-heal-with-a-surge powers.

 

[Samuel Leming]

I believe the point was that the wizard isn't spending a healing surge to do something once per day. Why should the fighter?

Spending a healing surge to use daily powers is a bad solution.

I'd prefer to eliminate both daily and encounter powers for martial characters, increase the damage done by the standard attacks from fighter types & add in a robust subsystem for stunting.

Sam