One D&D Expert Classes Playtest Document Is Live

The One D&D Expert Class playest document is now available to download. You can access it by signing into your D&D Beyond account at the link below. It contains three classes -- bard, rogue, and ranger, along with three associated subclasses (College of Lore, Thief, and Hunter), plus a number of feats.

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[Ruin Explorer]

The issue with Level Up is it usesspecial rules to allow so many nonmagical PCs that the common fantasy table wont support.

This is absolute nonsense.

You keep asserting "most people won't allow that!!!!!!" but it's just not true and it's never been true. Even stuff like Pathfinder 1E/2E shows it's not true.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

New weapon options for certain Classes [which Crawford seems to hint is the bread and butter of the Warrior Group in one of the videos]

Yeah I am intrigued as to what this will actually mean. Weapon-based special attacks/abilities? We saw 5E kind of approach that with some of the Feats in Tasha's.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah I am intrigued as to what this will actually mean. Weapon-based special attacks/abilities? We saw 5E kind of approach that with some of the Feats in Tasha's.

I think we saw a bit of a preview with the Ranger and the two weapon fighting stuff in this packet: Feats that change the actual properties on a weapon when a particular character uses them. I think we might see some wild stuff from the Warriors with that sort of technique.

 

[Faolyn]

The issue with Level Up is it usesspecial rules to allow so many nonmagical PCs that the common fantasy table wont support.

I really don't get that. I think a lot of people will appreciate more nonmagical options.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Everything I've seen from Level Up says that it adds fiddliness in exchange for archetypes - but for all it goes in what I think is a direction that is the opposite to the one I want adding nonmagical choices is a huge positive.

 

[Faolyn]

Everything I've seen from Level Up says that it adds fiddliness in exchange for archetypes - but for all it goes in what I think is a direction that is the opposite to the one I want adding nonmagical choices is a huge positive.

I'm not sure what you mean here with fiddliness in exchange for archetypes. There are archetypes in LU--lots of them, in fact, considering the 3pp stuff. There are also choices in the base class.

 

[MarkB]

You know, if they change the way smites work (which is entirely possible, as many think they are too good), you could easily end up with the same thematic issue with paladin that we currently have with ranger.

Honestly, I've never really seen the paladin as having any particularly thematic identity outside of D&D in the first place. I can think of a couple of ranger-types from popular fantasy, but no particular reference comes to mind for the paladin. Even, say, Arthurian knights feel more like straight-up fighters.

 

[Hussar]

Well the last time they stopped the playtest ~6-8 months before release and a bunch of stuff didn't get properly playtest out of house.

But, this time around, most of the rules have been play tested for the past several years. None of the proposed changes are massive. They're tweaks. It's not like they're completely rewriting classes from the ground up, the way they did from 4e to 5e, while at the same time largely ejecting 4e's framework for how classes are built, rewriting every single monster, plus rewriting most of the flavor for every single monster in the game.

I'm thinking that this time around is a bit less... frenetic.

 

[Maxperson]

They might not need 13, but that sounds about right. Consider what their roqdmap consists of:

• Revised versions of every Class from the 2014 PHB [which should take up 3 more packets, through to the end of 2022]
• 36 additional Subclasses [probably another 4 UA, later]
• New and revised Spells [probably spread across the Priest and Mage Class drops]
• New and revised Feats [which Crawford outright says in the videos from this week will be spread across the Class Group UA]
• New weapon options for certain Classes [which Crawford seems to hint is the bread and butter of the Warrior Group in one of the videos]
• New Home Base system for PCs [probably worth a full packet]
• Encounter building rules [definitely a distinct packet]
• New and revised Monsters [probably in the same packet as the new encounter building rules]

So, I'd guess the plan before any revisits is for about 9 more UA packets to cover what they've committed to, bringing them to aboutba year after the start. Then, they can make any revisions suggested by testing for another round, and prepare the final book way before the Holidays in 2024.

That 13 takes them to the deadline without any revisiting, though. If they want to revisit, they will need to pick up the pace of UA releases.

 

[Maxperson]

I agree. I’d go a step past that even, and say it should remain unique. Let the EK cast a cantrip as a BA when they use the attack action, or something, or just give them magical “weapon attacks” that aren’t even spells, just an attack they can make any time they’d normally make a weapon attack.

I can see arguments for both unique to a subclass and for limited numbers of subclasses. I'd be fine with either. I just don't want it to be a general thing.

 

[MarkB]

So, one thing I noticed:

EPIC BOON OF LUCK 20th-Level Feat Prerequisite: Expert Group Repeatable: No​

Immediately after you roll a d20 for a d20 Test, you can roll a d10 and add the number rolled to the test. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until you roll Initiative or finish a Short Rest or a Long Rest.​

​

No comment on the feat itself, but the bolded part is something I haven't seen before in 5e nomenclature, and is a more elegant way to implement per-encounter features than I've previously seen in the official rules. I hope it'll see some use outside of the Epic Boons.

 

[cbwjm]

Some things I quite like in this UA, I like that rangers (and presumably paladin and any future halfcasters) get spellcasting at 1st level, including cantrips.

Hunters mark is now an always prepared spell as part of Favoured enemy, I think this is good for a lot of players, for me I hardly used it since I tended to pick up other flavourful spells on the ranger list, so it's good that they given it for free.

I quite like the bards songs of restoration, though perhaps not just because it's a way to get healing spells. I'd want this feature to be changeable and a result of training from specific bard colleges. The flame dances might have a few fire spells instead of healing. Probably won't be able to alter it in dndbeyond when this is all released, but that might just mean that I move away from dndbeyond as a tool to create PCs and just use it more for referencing/DM tools.

I like how they are using the three different spell lists, but I don't like how they are limiting schools within those lists. I understand why they might want to in order to force a theme, but I'm likely to allow spellcasters open access to the entire spell list. This will mean that the bard's magical secret will essentially be granting them access to primal and divine spell lists.

I'm not so sure I like the new way of preparing spells, but if it gets rolled out to everyone, then the wizard is going to need a lot of changes. I'm not going to have the wizard needing to find all their spells if everyone is able to adjust their spells each day. Will have to wait for the Mage UA though to decide on any potential changes (they might have some cool stuff coming).

 

[MarkB]

I'm not so sure I like the new way of preparing spells, but if it gets rolled out to everyone, then the wizard is going to need a lot of changes. I'm not going to have the wizard needing to find all their spells if everyone is able to adjust their spells each day. Will have to wait for the Mage UA though to decide on any potential changes (they might have some cool stuff coming).

It will be interesting to see whether this is the end of the wizard spellbook.

 

[Parmandur]

That 13 takes them to the deadline without any revisiting, though. If they want to revisit, they will need to pick up the pace of UA releases.

No, I just laid out how they can easily get in everything they have suggested they will be doing by about August or September next year, which gives them months and months to revisit. Recall that no D&D Core book has released prior to June in the entire WotC era, with a spread of June to October for the Core three. They have left plenty of time for their tests of the new options.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

until you roll Initiative or finish a Short Rest or a Long Rest.

​

No comment on the feat itself, but the bolded part is something I haven't seen before in 5e nomenclature, and is a more elegant way to implement per-encounter features than I've previously seen in the official rules.

It's been used in some other things before (but the only one I remember right away is the Gnome Fade Away racial feat in Xanathar). Scary, scary encounter powers, inching their way in.

 

[Haplo781]

Honestly, I've never really seen the paladin as having any particularly thematic identity outside of D&D in the first place. I can think of a couple of ranger-types from popular fantasy, but no particular reference comes to mind for the paladin. Even, say, Arthurian knights feel more like straight-up fighters.

Galahad possessed the strength of 10 men because of his virtue.

So, one thing I noticed:

EPIC BOON OF LUCK 20th-Level Feat Prerequisite: Expert Group Repeatable: No​

Immediately after you roll a d20 for a d20 Test, you can roll a d10 and add the number rolled to the test. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until you roll Initiative or finish a Short Rest or a Long Rest.​

​

No comment on the feat itself, but the bolded part is something I haven't seen before in 5e nomenclature, and is a more elegant way to implement per-encounter features than I've previously seen in the official rules. I hope it'll see some use outside of the Epic Boons.

When you roll initiative, regain all your superiority dice...

 

[Maxperson]

No, I just laid out how they can easily get in everything they have suggested they will be doing by about August or September next year, which gives them months and months to revisit. Recall that no D&D Core book has released prior to June in the entire WotC era, with a spread of June to October for the Core three. They have left plenty of time for their tests of the new options.

What you laid out was 13 packets with no repeats. Without repeats the playtest fails to give revised anything in time.

 

[cbwjm]

It will be interesting to see whether this is the end of the wizard spellbook.

It could be, I sort of hope not but I feel like it is going to have to change. Maybe it will become something that allows them to gather rituals from everywhere, or perhaps it will become an implement in some fashion.

 

[Haplo781]

It could be, I sort of hope not but I feel like it is going to have to change. Maybe it will become something that allows them to gather rituals from everywhere, or perhaps it will become an implement in some fashion.

"You can ritually cast any arcane spell with the ritual tag without having it prepared."

 

[cbwjm]

"You can ritually cast any arcane spell with the ritual tag without having it prepared."

Yeah, I think that needs to be expanded with these changes.