One innovation per edition

[Mannahnin]

class subclass structure is just another way of doing Prestige classes. Not really innovation. Warlord base class was just a fighter subclass so borderline innovation. I think nothing since 3rd has truly had innovation. Most changes have just been change for change sake so we can print new books. I suppose you could call magic item attunement an innovative thing but whether it made the game better or not is arguable. I can't think of anything innovative in 4e other than trying to make it easier for the DM.

• The healing system being proportional to each character and limited by a per-character resource (surges), so for the first time non-combat classes like mages didn't recover from injury faster than combat classes like fighters.
• Non-AC defenses being reversed from traditional saving throws, which also allows for critical hits on them.
• The entire AEDU power structure changes how the classes function and unifies the attrition over an encounter or day better, resulting in the closest D&D has ever been to caster and non-caster classes feeling balanced with one another.

Off the top of my head first thing in the morning before I'm fully awake.

I think calling Warlord "just a fighter subclass" is unsupportable. No Fighter was ever a primary healer (Paladins had miniscule ability compared to even a first level AD&D Cleric), and no Fighter gave force multiplier bonuses to the party, or free actions to fellow party members. I suppose if you want to cite the Marshal from The Complete Miniatures Handbook you could source the concept partially to 3.5, but it wasn't nearly as developed a concept and I didn't really hear of folks using the class.

 

[James Gasik]

I think calling Warlord "just a fighter subclass" is unsupportable. No Fighter was ever a primary healer (Paladins had miniscule ability compared to even a first level AD&D Cleric), and no Fighter gave force multiplier bonuses to the party, or free actions to fellow party members. I suppose if you want to cite the Marshal from The Complete Miniatures Handbook you could source the concept partially to 3.5, but it wasn't nearly as developed a concept and I didn't really hear of folks using the class.

For another example, 3.5's Dragon Shaman with their draconic auras.

 

[Mannahnin]

For another example, 3.5's Dragon Shaman with their draconic auras.

Late 3.5 definitely started playing around with concepts which got more fully expressed in 4E. Book of 9 Swords is the obvious standout there, but stuff like the original Warlock class from Complete Arcane as well.

 

[James Gasik]

Late 3.5 definitely started playing around with concepts which got more fully expressed in 4E. Book of 9 Swords is the obvious standout there, but stuff like the original Warlock class from Complete Arcane as well.

Don't forget the Binder!

But uh, do forget the Truenamer, lol.

 

[Alzrius]

Late 3.5 definitely started playing around with concepts which got more fully expressed in 4E. Book of 9 Swords is the obvious standout there, but stuff like the original Warlock class from Complete Arcane as well.

I like to remind people that dragonborn originally appeared in 3.5E, even if they were somewhat different from their later implementations.

 

[payn]

I like to remind people that dragonborn originally appeared in 3.5E, even if they were somewhat different from their later implementations.

As Dragonkin or was that a different thing?

 

[Alzrius]

As Dragonkin or was that a different thing?

I think that was another thing (I vaguely recall a "dragonkin" from AD&D 2E, but don't quote me on that). In 3.5, the dragonborn were, if I recall correctly, the "dragonborn of Bahamut," and existing races (e.g. humans, elves, etc.) transformed into them as part of a pledge of service to Bahamut, reverting back to their original species if they broke faith with him.

 

[payn]

I think that was another thing (I vaguely recall a "dragonkin" from AD&D 2E, but don't quote me on that). In 3.5, the dragonborn were, if I recall correctly, the "dragonborn of Bahamut," and existing races (e.g. humans, elves, etc.) transformed into them as part of a pledge of service to Bahamut, reverting back to their original species if they broke faith with him.

Gotcha. I remember liking Dragonkin a lot and wondering where they went to.

 

[James Gasik]

I like to remind people that dragonborn originally appeared in 3.5E, even if they were somewhat different from their later implementations.

And we had Half-Dragons and Dray (not to mention Draconians) in AD&D.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't know if it was transformative but 4e monster design was pretty good.

I would love to have 4e style encounter design in 5e.