One Progression to Rule Them All....

[DandD]

Yes. Like I said, it doesn't and probably wouldn't be as high as +5/+10, perhaps only +3/+6 or so, if they're going to apply that trained-skill/skill focus-idea from SW SAGA into D&D 4th edition.

So, fighting could then be resolved as a skill-check, basically.

Does anybody know how skill-rank progression is really going to be in D&D 4th edition?

 

[Alnag]

Yes. Like I said, it doesn't and probably wouldn't be as high as +5/+10, perhaps only +3/+6 or so, if they're going to apply that trained-skill/skill focus-idea from SW SAGA into D&D 4th edition.

I tend to think, it might be +3/+6/+9 (Greater skill focus or something). There is more levels 30 against 20 so it can work with two pumping of skills or something. +9 difference might be great, but if it will be in the epic scope of the game, that would not be that much of difference, would it?

 

[Odysseus]

My initial thought after reading SAGA was that the roles we're going to define the progression.
But I'm now staring to wonder if there will be just one progression.
I can't believe there will be only one hit dice. But one progression for BAB and save bonuses , that makes sense.

 

[Szatany]

My initial thought after reading SAGA was that the roles we're going to define the progression.
But I'm now staring to wonder if there will be just one progression.
I can't believe there will be only one hit dice. But one progression for BAB and save bonuses , that makes sense.

who said there will be Hit Dice?

 

[The Lost Muse]

Didn't OD&D have only one hit dice?

 

[Varianor Abroad]

How about just giving out ranks for purchasing skills, saves and to hits? Retain the level cap idea from 3E but change it to Level+X depending on your class. Now that would be really interesting and require some resource management by players. However, it would be getting further away from D&D as we know it and more complicated for character creation.

 

[JayBrickwall]

It would seem to me that a single "progression" of BAB would make sense, in the sense that at each level each class could purchase a BAB "bonus"... Casters could purchase a Casting BAB, Melee'ers could purchase a Melee BAB... but as a character option you wouldn't HAVE to. Casters could certainly choose a Melee BAB once in awhile, and with some of the "talents" and abilities available, there is a chance that a fighter might want to up his casting BAB, occasionally.

Could it be a "point-buy" system AT EACH LEVEL... Monte Hall style... "Okay, I will trade a die of HD and my Reflex save bonus for this other feat-tree ability, and I'll spend my BAB on casting"

That would be CRAZY customization... but would allow for "concepts" to rule over "classes"... making ANY character more possible through the core ruleset.

(Welcoming myself back to the boards... the books got put away for my first son to be born, and during some unnamed server reset, I must have lost my account. I log back in for the first time 2 weeks ago (or so)... and lo and behold... 4E..!!! Wow. So I've been reading and watching... And trying to keep my opinion in the "neutral middle ground"!)

 

[Atlatl Jones]

Fighter
Attack: Melee +4, Ranged +4, Spells +0
Defense: Fort +3, Will +0, Ref +0
Special: Weapon Specialization

Paladin
Attack: Melee +4, Ranged +3, Spells +0
Defense: Fort +3, Will +1, Ref +0
Special: Faith Strike

Warlock
Attack: Melee +0, Ranged +1, Spells +4
Defense: Fort +0, Will +3, Ref +0
Special: Pact With [Demon,Shadow,Fey]

That makes a lot of sense. However, with the new emphasis on power sources, I think that instead of a single "spells" bonus we'd have different bonuses for each power source.

Warlock
Attack: Melee +0, Ranged +1, Arcane +4, Divine +0, Martial +0.

Paladin
Attack: Melee +4, Ranged +3, Arcane +0, Divine +2, Martial +0.

Or maybe just eliminate the separate melee and ranged BAB, and base combat on your Martial bonus.

I also suspect we'll have AC defense bonuses that increase with each level, perhaps working like Star Wars Saga: take your class/level bonus or your armor bonus, whichever is higher. If you take a certain talent, you can add 1/2 your armor bonus to your level bonus.

The main problem is probably how you cope with multiclassing

Multiclassing will probably work radically differently than in 3.x. Since the progression seems based on character level, not "class level", it doesn't make much sense to split your levels up (as in a level 9 character who is Rogue 4 / Fighter 5). The previews that have talked about multiclassing have talked about it in terms of "a fighter taking some wizard powers" and the like. I suspect that all characters will have a primary class, and then will be able to take talents to "multiclass" with other classes, and take some of their powers and talents.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Yes. If Class X is always "just as better" over the other classes as 3E classes are between levels 7-12, then the balance will always remain the same.

Fighter
Attack: Melee +4, Ranged +4, Spells +0
Defense: Fort +3, Will +0, Ref +0
Special: Weapon Specialization

etc.

The corollary to this being that gaining levels doesn't provide any real increase in power on a numeric scale. Your fighter there will be +4 to hit at every level, and assuming that AC scales proportionally to BAB, he'll always have a power level that's about the same compared to both the wizard and to the monsters.

That would mean that most, if not all, his abilities are going to be based on providing something other than a numerical advantage. If he gets too many +1s to hit, he'll break the progression, so his abilities have got to do something other than just beef up his attacks. From what we've already seen of the fighter, this isn't a surprise. He seems to have abilities that give him extra attacks and make his attacks hit harder, but no mention of abilities like Weapon Focus/Greater/Uber/Ultra/Epic/etc. that keep pushing his attack bonuses higher and higher.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

That would mean that most, if not all, his abilities are going to be based on providing something other than a numerical advantage. If he gets too many +1s to hit, he'll break the progression, so his abilities have got to do something other than just beef up his attacks. From what we've already seen of the fighter, this isn't a surprise. He seems to have abilities that give him extra attacks and make his attacks hit harder, but no mention of abilities like Weapon Focus/Greater/Uber/Ultra/Epic/etc. that keep pushing his attack bonuses higher and higher.

I think that you are right

I must say that this is another good news from the 4th edition front