One Progression to Rule Them All....

[erf_beto]

IIRC, this is wrong. Stat bonuses do not go up with level. They are fixed at (Stat-2)/2. This way the 3-18 spread starts with +0 at '3' and increases by +1 at even numbers (4-5 is +1; 6-7 is +2; etc.)

Was this confirmed?
I thought it was only a GUESS from someone in a Gleemax post...

 

[Sammael]

Was this confirmed?
I thought it was only a GUESS from someone in a Gleemax post...

No, it was never confirmed, and I wish people would stop quoting it as a fact. It was merely one poster's extrapolation of the stats. I firmly believe the stat modifiers are the same as in 3.x, and the half-level bonus is included for convenience (since it probably applies to almost everything related to the ability, including skill checks, but apparently excluding damage).

 

[Baby Samurai]

No, it was never confirmed, and I wish people would stop quoting it as a fact. It was merely one poster's extrapolation of the stats. I firmly believe the stat modifiers are the same as in 3.x, and the half-level bonus is included for convenience (since it probably applies to almost everything related to the ability, including skill checks, but apparently excluding damage).

Yes, thank you, just like in Saga you gain half character level as a bonus to Skill checks/ability checks, so as the Spined Devil is level 6 and has a 19 Str, it lists a bonus of +7 (+4 for 19 Str, and + 3 for half of level 6 = +7).

The claw damage is still +4…

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes, thank you, just like in Saga you gain half character level as a bonus to Skill checks/ability checks, so as the Spined Devil is level 6 and has a 19 Str, it lists a bonus of +7 (+4 for 19 Str, and + 3 for half of level 6 = +7).

The claw damage is still +4…

I also think it's (Stat-10/2) + 1/2 level as ability modifier for most checks, but the "raw" ability modifier is not modified by level (it might only be used as a damage modifier, though.)

I think this would be a great simplfication and might also come in handy in stream-lining combat maneuvers (trip, disarm, grapple, possibly even throw/pin á la* Saga). Maybe "deal damage" (with an attack) will be just another combat maneuvers...

I don't kwow if there will be a concept of increasing the class bonuses at the specific tiers. I mean, don't you just risk running in the same problem as in 3rd edition, just more granular?

Though I could see that if similar bonuses exist for spell casting "attacks", it might offer an option for multiclassing to decide whether to focus on one type of attack, or broadening your attacks. (But would this be wise, in the "power-gaming" sense?)

*) Is Saga female? In German, it is. But what about Frensh or English? If it's male, I probably should have written "au Saga", shouldn't I?

 

[Sir Sebastian Hardin]

*) Is Saga female? In German, it is. But what about Frensh or English? If it's male, I probably should have written "au Saga", shouldn't I?

It is female in Spanish too

 

[BartD]

One progression to rule them all

I think it will be really neat and work really well if all classes have parallel progressions in everything. In 3e the 1st level fighter's BAB is only 1 point above the wizard's - wtf?
Here I will argue that that progression can be achieved simply by improving the stat modifiers.

Given the various news, I expect all of the following to have parallel progressions for all clases:
- skills (+1 per 2 levels is almost certain, isn't it?)
- attacks (seperate offsets for melee/ranged/magic sound good)
- defenses (if they scale like attacks, the scaling really only differentiates between high and low-level characters and the foes they are able to face)
- hitpoints (even though it doesn't have to be done that way, let's assume that the # of hitpoints gained at each level is modified by constitution)
- damage maybe (the question is if the wizard should get the same damage bonus as the fighter? Sounds strange but it may not be so bad after all if the fighter gets more attacks)

...obviously I also expect the different classes to have one-off modifiers to these stats, but that's not really what I want to talk about.

First, I see no reason why all of these (well, except htpoints they're different) should not increase at the same rate, say +1 per 2 levels. It will give relatively big 'bumps' at even levels, but that could be smoothed out by hav ing stats 'virtually' increase by +1 every level instead. If a flatter powercurve is desired, the rate could simply be changed to +1 per 3 levels.

Actually, what if stat modifiers improved by +1 per 2 levels for all purposes and not just skills? This would include attacks, defenses, damage, everything. Assuming that any check will be modified by exactly one stat and that the same is true for the opposing DC, this would keep the difficulty of same-level checks constant. I think that would be brilliant!
No need for BAB or save progressions anymore!

However, that would not work so well for hitpoints (assuming that the modifier is applied every level) since the deterministic part would be of the order level^2 and eventually make the differences between classes insignificant. If on the other hand, constitution only affected the hitpoints gained at level 1, there would be no problem.

My pet theory for hitpoints: Everyone rolls d6s for hitpoints. At each level, wizards add +0, fighters add +4 or something like that. Then I hope constitution is only considered at level 1, but it will probably be applied at each level.

While I think it would be really neat if the modifiers for *everything* increased at the same rate, I have an uneasy feeling that we will get one rule saying that skills are modified by +level/2 and a different rule/tabel saying that saves improve by +1 per 2 levels, and maybe another one for attacks.

 

[Commonblade]

From here:

Spined Devil
Medium Immortal Humanoid (Devil)
Level 6 Skirmisher

Init +5 Speed 5 Fly 7

Senses Nethersight, Perception +5

Resists Fire 20

AC 20 Fort 18 Ref 18 Will 18

HP/Blooded 47/23

ATTACKS
Melee 2 claws +9 vs AC each; 2d4+4
Spine Rain Standard, Ranged 10; +9 Dex vs. Ref; 1d6+2 + 2d6 Fire AND Poison 5, Slowed while Poisoned.

SKILLS Spot +10

Str +7(19) Dex +5(14) Con +5(15) Int +5(15) Wis +5(14) Cha +5(15)

Ok, I slept on this and found some methods to the madness of combat mods...

Use the Stat/2-5+(1/2 lvl)

If I do that I
Melee is 7+2 = 9
Range is 5+4 = 9

If I just use stats ala 3.5 and a 1/2 BAB progression
Melee is 4+[lvl 6 /2] 3+2 = 9
Range is 2+[lvl 6 /2] 3+4 = 9

Which is basically the same as the first one.

This makes me think that there is a bonus for skirmishers of +2 in melee and +4 for range.

What this means to me is that each "job" will have a different Melee and Range modifier.

Concrete proof, no. But it is a lead.

 

[Irda Ranger]

No, it was never confirmed, and I wish people would stop quoting it as a fact. It was merely one poster's extrapolation of the stats. I firmly believe the stat modifiers are the same as in 3.x, and the half-level bonus is included for convenience (since it probably applies to almost everything related to the ability, including skill checks, but apparently excluding damage).

I thought some WotC dude in London confirmed it. Was that redacted?

Is Saga female? In German, it is. But what about Frensh or English?

In English it's neuter. With a few exceptions only people and animals with known gender have gender. Everything else is "it". Exceptions are for historical reasons (sailing ships are female), but exceptions are not very common.

 

[Commonblade]

I think it will be really neat and work really well if all classes have parallel progressions in everything. In 3e the 1st level fighter's BAB is only 1 point above the wizard's - wtf?
Here I will argue that that progression can be achieved simply by improving the stat modifiers.

Given the various news, I expect all of the following to have parallel progressions for all clases:
- skills (+1 per 2 levels is almost certain, isn't it?)
- attacks (seperate offsets for melee/ranged/magic sound good)
- defenses (if they scale like attacks, the scaling really only differentiates between high and low-level characters and the foes they are able to face)
- hitpoints (even though it doesn't have to be done that way, let's assume that the # of hitpoints gained at each level is modified by constitution)
- damage maybe (the question is if the wizard should get the same damage bonus as the fighter? Sounds strange but it may not be so bad after all if the fighter gets more attacks)

...obviously I also expect the different classes to have one-off modifiers to these stats, but that's not really what I want to talk about.

First, I see no reason why all of these (well, except htpoints they're different) should not increase at the same rate, say +1 per 2 levels. It will give relatively big 'bumps' at even levels, but that could be smoothed out by hav ing stats 'virtually' increase by +1 every level instead. If a flatter powercurve is desired, the rate could simply be changed to +1 per 3 levels.

Actually, what if stat modifiers improved by +1 per 2 levels for all purposes and not just skills? This would include attacks, defenses, damage, everything. Assuming that any check will be modified by exactly one stat and that the same is true for the opposing DC, this would keep the difficulty of same-level checks constant. I think that would be brilliant!
No need for BAB or save progressions anymore!

However, that would not work so well for hitpoints (assuming that the modifier is applied every level) since the deterministic part would be of the order level^2 and eventually make the differences between classes insignificant. If on the other hand, constitution only affected the hitpoints gained at level 1, there would be no problem.

My pet theory for hitpoints: Everyone rolls d6s for hitpoints. At each level, wizards add +0, fighters add +4 or something like that. Then I hope constitution is only considered at level 1, but it will probably be applied at each level.

While I think it would be really neat if the modifiers for *everything* increased at the same rate, I have an uneasy feeling that we will get one rule saying that skills are modified by +level/2 and a different rule/tabel saying that saves improve by +1 per 2 levels, and maybe another one for attacks.

The Magic Attack bonus is something I didn't think about but would make a lot of sense. I also agree with you on HP but I think its going to be d4+class bonus.

 

[Warbringer]

I for one think progression will simply be +1/2 level ... for every d20 based check. This I think is the new key mechanic