• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer


Fanatical faith. Usually in both the oath and a god, but it can be an oath and some other ideal.
The power of a Paladin comes from integrity.

What they say, and what they do, match.

They cohere with an ideological paradigm within the Astral realm of thoughts and ideals. This paradigm may or may not be an ethical alignment. They physicalize this paradigm within the Material Plane by means of their physical actions. They influence and form what the Material Plane should be − and wherever else they are. This is the Oath.

They make the world around them more like their ideal.

log in or register to remove this ad


Morkus from Orkus
They went from worst class in (and for) the game to one of the best in just three editions.
Yeah. 5e has the best RAW paladins. That's why during my 3e years I re-wrote the paladin class and turned them into holy warriors of the church. I would work with the player to design individual paladin classes that had weapons, armor, alignment, tenets and abilities to match the chosen deity.


So why don't other people get super powers from their crazy beliefs?

Because they aren't paladins.

I mean, real-world example. There was a man, I believe in India, whose wife died because a mountain road was blocked and she couldn't get to the hospital in time. He spent the next 40 years, by himself, carving a new road through the mountain, so that it would never happen again. Why didn't anyone else do that? Because they didn't have whatever it was he had.

Since when does a barbarian summon fire by screaming? Is that a subbclass?


And I never said the demon-killing guard wouldn't work.

Sure, you just dismissed the entire point of why I do not want to have a fighter's relevance be because they have the correct magical gear to be relevant.



Here is what the UA6 playtest Paladin says for 5e 2024.

Primary Abilities: Strength, Charisma
Charisma, the ability to influence and inspire others is a central mechanic and concept. It also relates to helping a group maintain morale to fight for a cause.

Paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of annihilation and corruption.
"To stand against corruption" relates to maintaining ones own personal integrity. What one says and what one does, need to match.

"To stand against annihilation" relates to a meaningful, self-sustaining, enduring, Material Plane.

Whether sworn before a god’s altar, in a sacred glade before nature spirits and fey beings, or in a moment of desperation and grief with the dead as the only witnesses, a Paladin’s oath is a powerful bond.
There are many different kinds of Oath, including nontheistic and theistic. The motive for the commitment might be out of idealism or desperation.

The Oath is the magic of words and meaning.

Divine magic is symbolic, linguistic, and relies on meaningfulness. Words create the multiverse. Oaths transform the multiverse in a meaningful coherent way.

It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion.
A "blessed" warrior connotes the Divine power source from an Astral paradigm, archetype, or ethical ideal. The ideal empowers the transformative effort to cohere the world to the idea. Those Paladins who are Good, strive to make the world a better place.

A Paladin swears to stand against corrupting influences and to hunt the forces of ruin wherever they lurk. Different Paladins focus on various aspects of these causes, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work.
Paladins are aggressive. They are warriors, and champions, and able to face adversity and adversaries. They are wholehearted and Fight with integrity.

Not all Paladins are Good. Some are Lawful championing a group, some are Chaotic championing individualism.

An Evil Paladin is less an option in the Players Handbook. But the Evil ideal would also be wholehearted and consistent, and transforming its community toward predatory self-empowerment.

Paladins train to learn the skills of combat, mastering a variety of weapons and armor. Even so, their martial skills are secondary to the magical power they wield—power to heal the sick and injured, to smite their foes, and to protect the helpless and those who fight at their side.
Paladins are warriors, but their ideological magic expresses a higher priority.

They are very much the magical champions on behalf of a CAUSE.

Almost by definition, the life of a Paladin is an adventuring life, for every Paladin lives on the front lines of the cosmic struggle against annihilation.
Here, "annihilation" literally means to cease to exist. But the implication is, for the Material world to lose its meaning and purpose is the same thing as to cease to exist. It would be the end of the world as one knows it.

Fighters are rare enough among the ranks of a world’s armies, but even fewer people can claim the calling of a Paladin. When they do
receive the call, these blessed folk turn from their former occupations and take up arms and magic. Sometimes their oaths lead them into the
service of the crown as leaders of elite groups of knights, but even then, their loyalty is first to their sacred oaths, not to crown and country.
Here, the Paladin class description gently suggests how the class might fit within a particular choice of setting.

Adventuring Paladins take their work seriously. A delve into an ancient ruin or a dusty crypt can be a quest driven by a higher purpose than the acquisition of treasure. Malign forces lurk in dungeons, and even the smallest victory against them can tilt the cosmic balance away from oblivion.
Here, the description offers a rationale for an adventuring game.

The above is what a "Paladin" is.

The archetype of the Paladin comes from the reallife historical traditions, relating to the knights and chivalry. The reallife inspirations are sometimes deeply Evil. For example, during various crusades, knights were often hatesgroups that committed atrocities against innocent Jewish communities across Europe and into Asia. It is ok to remember that D&D is borrowing from traditions that can be "fanatical" and harmful. But the UA6 Paladin doesnt lean into this darkside.

The core Oaths are: Devotion (compassion), Glory (heroism), Ancients (hope), and Vengeance (justice).

The adherents of these causes can be calm, reasonable, fair, and sane.
Last edited:


It limits them to what everything prior to 5e said a paladin was in D&D. You want a different class narrative? Play another class.

You mean the class most often mocked for being so single-note that they could barely function in a party? Oh wow, I would sure love to limit myself to that again. Because before 3.5 Paladins had to be lawful good, honest, couldn't adventure with "evil people" had to give their belongings to others, ect ect ect. You were handed a script, and lost everything if you deviated from it.

3.5 gave you a set of scripts, making a paladin for each alignment...

And 5e was finally like, "why don't we let people decide for themselves what their character finds important?"

And while you certainly dedicate yourself to something, body and soul, without a god, if you get superpowers those have to come from somewhere.

Why can't they come from your devotion?

Remove ads