D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Minigiant]

I doubt many of us had much choice in that vote, I for example had not started dnd in time to vote

This is true.

The Sorcerer's base design was heavily influenced by old D&D fans. Many of which who never adopted 5e and didn't become a majority of sorcerer players.

The section of the community demanded the Sorcerer be a version of the 3e Sorcerer even though the community at the time thought the 3e Sorcerer was bland and ill-supported.

An opposing section of the community wanted bigger changes but were outvoted.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sorcerers are narratively interesting, though, and are narratively different from warlocks.

But they aren't metaphysically distinct. Depending how you interpret warlocks, they're metaphysically either sorcerers (if they're permanently imbued with power by a magical being) or clerics (if they channel magic from a powerful being.)

I don't think we need separate class depending on whether you were imbued by fiendish energy by a pact made with an archfiend, or imbued with fiendish energy because your dad was an archfiend.

 

[Minigiant]

I never saw the 2014 playtest sorcerer so i may be rehashing what that was but I think it would be interesting if, while the sorcerer had spell slots they were minimally intended to be used for spells themselves, but rather exist to be used to power a set of abilities not dissimilar to the paladin’s smite, say, the draconic bloodline starts with ‘draconic claw’, ‘dragon breath’ and ‘dragon scales’ the claw attack makes two (1+spellslot level)d6 damage attacks, dragon breath is a breath weapon that scales similarly and the scales is a Shield-spell-comparable ability who’s granted AC bonus is determined by the spell slot used. To really play on the source of the magic they gained their abilities from.

That's kinda what it was and leaning to.

I think that the idea ways that the sorcerer had a list of "not-spell" powers and different origins would boost or modify different ones.
And after you spent a certain amount of points, your magic would leak out and give you appropriate thematic buffs.

 

[Minigiant]

But they aren't metaphysically distinct. Depending how you interpret warlocks, they're metaphysically either sorcerers (if they're permanently imbued with power by a magical being) or clerics (if they channel magic from a powerful being.)

I don't think we need separate class depending on whether you were imbued by fiendish energy by a pact made with an archfiend, or imbued with fiendish energy because your dad was an archfiend.

they are metaphysical different.

It's Being a Mutant vs Being Gifted a Supersuit.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

they are metaphysical different.

It's Being a Mutant vs Being Gifted a Supersuit.

No, because once gifted it is part of you, and after that point there is no longer a difference. It is like being born a mutant with superpowers or being turned into one by cosmic rays. The end result is the same.

 

[Minigiant]

No, because once gifted it is part of you, and after that point there is no longer a difference. It is like being born a mutant with superpowers or being turned into one by cosmic rays. The end result is the same.

You are missing the means.

In D&D, the way you get your powers gives you different powersets.
You get powers based on how you got your powers.
Warlocks make a pact and get invocations and eldritch blast.
Sorcerer have an origin story and get sorcery and metamagic.

There is a sort of tier of power linked to it

Gods: Clerics
Non-divine Immortal Patrons: Warlocks
Strong Monsters/Events: Sorcerers
Oaths: Paladins
Nothing: Wizards

Each being gives different powers.

The issue is WOTC and many 3PPs and 1PPs are lame and uncreative about RPG concepts the designers don't care about but include to support the fandom.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Gods: Clerics
Non-divine Immortal Patrons: Warlocks
Strong Monsters/Events: Sorcerers
Oaths: Paladins
Nothing: Wizards

Star power: Bards

 

[Yaarel]

You are missing the means.

The means dont matter, if they dont happen during gameplay.

If the Sorcerer casts Fireball, and the Wizard casts Fireball, they appear the same.

Use is meaning. They are what they do.

In D&D, the way you get your powers gives you different powersets.
You get powers based on how you got your powers.
Warlocks make a pact and get invocations and eldritch blast.
Sorcerer have an origin story and get sorcery and metamagic.

If a Sorcerer inherits an nonhuman genome, sotospeak, why wouldnt the Sorcerer have always-on powers, like invocations?


A Sorcerer can make "pact", such as being transformed by a powerful Dragon or Celestial.

A Warlock can "inherit" a bloodline, such as be part of a pact made by an ancestor.

 

[Minigiant]

The means dont matter, if they dont happen during gameplay.

If the Warlock casts Fireball, and the Sorcerer casts Fireball, and the Wizard casts Fireball.

Use is meaning. They are what they do.

The Warlock has unlimited fireballs
The Sorcerer has faster fireballs
The Wizard can learn Iceball

That's the differences of the means.

If a Sorcerer inherits an nonhuman genome, sotospeak, why wouldnt the Sorcerer have always-on powers, like invocations?


A Sorcerer can make "pact", such as being transformed by a powerful Dragon or Celestial.

A Warlock can "inherit" a bloodline, such as be part of a pact made by an ancestor.

Because you can't get invocations without making a pact.
Well you're not suppose to.

That's the point. That's how Patrons hook you. You can't get invocations without them.
Gods are above Patrons and can create clerics. Making warlocks is beneath most active living deities.

 

[Yaarel]

Gods are above Patrons and can create clerics. Making warlocks is beneath most active living deities.

Clerics get their powers from the plane, not from the gods. Also, Clerics can contemplate a cosmic principle to make the connection.

If I recall correctly, a Warlock can make a pact with a community of Pixies, or something like that.

Appeal to a hierarchy is untenable.