D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Chaosmancer]

need high con to survive that, plus it makes it the only one stat caster

I would like it as a backup, the you're out of SP but not out of options or so you can pull a noble sacrifice but that might just be me

Ah, as a "noble sacrifice" move I generally have them pull from Hit Dice. I also require spending hit dice on a long rest to heal, so it ends up being a sizable penalty. But yeah, last ditch effort is fine, it is the "doing it as the common way" that has me worried.

 

[Mephista]

This gives me an idea... what if Sorcerers became the creature type of their bloodline, or at least added it to the humanoid creature type?

You're a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer? You gain the dragon creature type.

The problem being that Sorcerer isn't the monster class in dnd 5e. There might be dragon sorcerers, and aberrant minds might have mindflayer ties, but.... Wild magic can easily
be halfling luck powers dialed to 11, or power drawn from Deck of Many Things. Storm sorcerers are just elementalists. Moon magic (and the related 4e celestial sorcerer) isn't any kind of monster.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Did you not read the last sentence:

"Any given sorcerer could be the first of a new bloodline, as a result of a pact or some other exceptional circumstance."

That's a warlock. Also that ancestor you spoke of also an warlock. It makes no sense that children of that originator would be of completely different class with different sort of magic.

I did miss that line. But... why doesn't it make sense that the children of a Warlock who made a pact could be sorcerers with completely different magic? If you are an elf, and you have a child with a demon, they are going to have completely different magic than you did as an elf. Heck, you could be the child of a paladin and a cleric... and be a wizard with completely different magic than either of them!

Like, the entire POINT of a sorcerer is that you were born with powers that others don't have. So, sure, a warlock can give birth to a Sorcerer, the magic of their pact having altered their children. That's a fine story that makes perfect sense. And nothing about that line says that they gained their magic because THEY made the pact, just that a pact might have been the source of the magic that altered them.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That indeed is one interpretation that clearly differentiates them. (And would also answer to the question can the patron turn off the powers of the warlock.) But the issue with that is that it makes a warlock a type of a cleric.

shrug yeah, that is a problem, sort of.

Clerics have Faith, clerics believe in the divine (generally, there are exceptions) and Warlocks have a transaction. Honestly, if we have to swallow Druids being given their power by Nature Gods, who also empower Nature Clerics with wildly different abilities, then I think it is fine that clerics and warlocks also have some thematic overlap.

And actually, those exceptions? Those clerics who do not believe? Their relationship with the god is not chosen. It is forced by the god. That could explain why they are not warlocks. A Warlock makes a deal, and that deal binds both ways, they are legally equal within the contract law. A cleric is either willing or unwilling, but they hold no mystical sway over the god they get their powers from. They can plead for help, but they cannot demand payment.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't think it's that much of a death sentence to spend HP for Metamagic options. In the 2014 PHB, all the Metamagic options are 1-3 SP. In the last playtest featuring the Sorcerer (UA7), the Metamagic options were either 1 or 2 SP.

Taking into consideration my suggestions,
A) Being a CON-based caster means Sorcerers should cave a higher Constitution modifier, and therefore more HP
B) If that's not enough, raising the hit die to a d8 should give them even more HP
C) If that's still not enough, maybe capping the amount of HP used to 1/level/day or so would help.

Spending 1, 2, or 3 HP to perform a Metamagic act isn't horrible. Doing some back-of-the-napkin math, a level 5 Sorcerer with a 16 CON (+3 modifier), taking the average HP at each level (and taking a feat at 4th just to keep the math simple) would have 37 HP with a d6 HD (or 43 HP with a d8 HD). Burning up to 5 HP/day for Metamagic isn't Metatragic*. Do people even carry Healing Potions with them anymore? It seems like many people are going the BG3 route by making it a Bonus Action to chug a potion, and an Action only when administering a potion to someone else.

*please disregard my use of the term Metatragic. I didn't get enough sleep last night and am not firing on all cylinders.

If you are going to cap it at 5 hp per day, why not just keep the sorcerery points? Like, you are solving the potential problem, but in doing so you are completely eliminating the feel of the thematics.

It is without the cap that you have two potential problems. Keep the cost the same, and with 43 hp you can now use a minimum of 15 to 20 metamagic at level 5, instead of the two you could do before. And the max is determined by how much healing is available.

Change the cost, and suddenly you need that healing, because you are spending 12.5% or more of your health (5 pts) per use of your ability, which is a lot.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This gives me an idea... what if Sorcerers became the creature type of their bloodline, or at least added it to the humanoid creature type?

You're a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer? You gain the dragon creature type.

WoTC did try that with some of the lineage options, having PCs be Fey or Construct alongside humanoid. They abandoned it pretty quickly, likely do to the knock-on effects and confusion of how spells worked with those types (If I am Dragon and Humanoid, can I be affected by Charm Person or damaged by Dragon-Slaying weapons? If I get all the penalties but none of the benefits, it isn't good, if I get all the benefits, is that too powerful?)

 

[ezo]

The problem being that Sorcerer isn't the monster class in dnd 5e. There might be dragon sorcerers, and aberrant minds might have mindflayer ties, but.... Wild magic can easily
be halfling luck powers dialed to 11, or power drawn from Deck of Many Things. Storm sorcerers are just elementalists. Moon magic (and the related 4e celestial sorcerer) isn't any kind of monster.

No, it isn't, but this would make the PC (not the class, mind you) that creature type. Just like Elves are now considered both humanoid and fey, a draconic bloodline sorcerer would be dragon and humanoid (and possibly more, like fey if the sorcerer is an Elf).

Every sorcerer subclass could easily be tied to one of the numerous creature type...

From PHB, XGtE, TCoE:
Draconic Bloodline - Dragons
Wild Magic - Fey (or Monstrosities)
Divine Soul - Celestials
Shadow Magic - Undead
Storm Sorcery - Elementals
Abberant Mind - Aberrations
Clockwork Soul - Constructs

Also, if you use them:
Lunar Sorcery - Beasts (or Fey)
Pyromancy - Fiends

And that still leaves a few creature types not even used yet, which work if you want to add some UA origins, like obviously Giant Soul - Giants.

 

[ezo]

WoTC did try that with some of the lineage options, having PCs be Fey or Construct alongside humanoid. They abandoned it pretty quickly, likely do to the knock-on effects and confusion of how spells worked with those types (If I am Dragon and Humanoid, can I be affected by Charm Person or damaged by Dragon-Slaying weapons? If I get all the penalties but none of the benefits, it isn't good, if I get all the benefits, is that too powerful?)

Yep, I can see the issue, so if you include anything which could penalize, you need something to benefit, of course.

For example, the Clockwork Soul - Construct might not need food, water, or sleep.

 

[Minigiant]

Another idea

If 5e stated with the Playtest Exhaustion that gives a -X, a sorcerer who casts spells by rolling a Con or Cha check and taking Exhaustion if they fail would feel more like a sorcerer from books and movies.

And at level 5, they'd recover more Exhaustion on Short Rest.

Burning Hands. Beat a DC 11 Con check or take 1 exhaustion.
Fireball. Beat a DC 13 Con check or take 1 exhaustion.

Metamagic adds to the DC.
If you don't have the spell prepared, you have disadvantage.

DMs can invent DCs and a slot level for on the fly spells.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I did miss that line. But... why doesn't it make sense that the children of a Warlock who made a pact could be sorcerers with completely different magic?

To me that would be obviously bonkers. It is the magic of the parent they're inheriting, thus it obviously should be the same type of magic.

If you are an elf, and you have a child with a demon, they are going to have completely different magic than you did as an elf.

Obviously. But that is because they inherit the magic from the other parent.

Heck, you could be the child of a paladin and a cleric... and be a wizard with completely different magic than either of them!

Yes, as none of that magic is inherited in the first place.

Like, the entire POINT of a sorcerer is that you were born with powers that others don't have.

Except that literally is not what the sorcerer fluff actually says! Being born with it is just one option, but often it is Maybelline. Freak accidents, gaining power from a magical entity and a literal pact are all offered as options.